AFR heads/G5X-3 the dyno is fixed
06-09-2004 | 09:11 AM
#43
It would be a great feat for AFR to top TEA and AS heads.
Before everyone gets to rap-up in the AFR hype, it would be nice if a top head porter like TEA or AS did some testing, dyno a car with their top head then blot on AFR’s and finally have them do their magic to the AFR and bolt it on.
It would be good to see how they all compare.
Also, I think the AFR 225 are going to have a 2.08 intake valve, more for the larger cube engines.
Before everyone gets to rap-up in the AFR hype, it would be nice if a top head porter like TEA or AS did some testing, dyno a car with their top head then blot on AFR’s and finally have them do their magic to the AFR and bolt it on.
It would be good to see how they all compare.
Also, I think the AFR 225 are going to have a 2.08 intake valve, more for the larger cube engines.
06-09-2004 | 09:25 AM
#44
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Originally Posted by Hardtop
Nice numbers, and great torque. I'm not trying to be negative, but haven't similar setups with ported LS6 heads made over 500 rwhp? I can't wait to see what the 225's do. 
Bruce
Bruce
I do like the numbers a lot given what's in the car.
06-09-2004 | 10:06 AM
#46
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FormerVendor
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From: Dallas/Wylie Texas
Hi Guys,
first off, I never put a ported head on a car in our shop without having the compression over 11:1 unless they were going to California or Az where the gas is bad.
So it was normal to match the compression of the heads that we usually install.
Next, we left the belts on and all the rest to see how they compare to similar head packages. We have seen similar numbers from the AS heads that Jay has done for us, but not quite as high with the same parts on the car. The only problem that the head porters have is that they have to start with a stock head which is slightly worse off.
I agree that when the porters get heads from AFR to work with I think it is just another bit of ammo for them. Just like when guys switch from LS1 heads to LS6 heads, the porters get better results with the LS6 heads. Now they just have a new head to start with, the LS-AFR.
As for starting with a 66cc chamber, that would give you a 10.24 compression ratio. I don't know many who have built a hot rod LS1 engine with 10.24:1 compression. Having said that I think the combustion chamber should come stock from AFR at 62 or 63 cc . That would give most a 10.8 compression starting point.
The spring upgrade is only $80 and the milling was $100, so for $180 extra they are ready to go with most any cam out there. The base heads with the 66cc chamber and standard springs, ( good to .600) will sell for $2182, and we can work with our customers to up grade the springs and compression at a good price for the extras to keep the heads that we sell at $2360 with the higher compression and upgraded springs just like we installed on our car.
We are also going to get some bare blanks and send them to Jay at Absolute speed to see what he can do to specialize the package for us.
NOTE: These prices are slightly off from what I posted originally but I made a mistake.
Thanks,
Lou G
first off, I never put a ported head on a car in our shop without having the compression over 11:1 unless they were going to California or Az where the gas is bad.
So it was normal to match the compression of the heads that we usually install.
Next, we left the belts on and all the rest to see how they compare to similar head packages. We have seen similar numbers from the AS heads that Jay has done for us, but not quite as high with the same parts on the car. The only problem that the head porters have is that they have to start with a stock head which is slightly worse off.
I agree that when the porters get heads from AFR to work with I think it is just another bit of ammo for them. Just like when guys switch from LS1 heads to LS6 heads, the porters get better results with the LS6 heads. Now they just have a new head to start with, the LS-AFR.
As for starting with a 66cc chamber, that would give you a 10.24 compression ratio. I don't know many who have built a hot rod LS1 engine with 10.24:1 compression. Having said that I think the combustion chamber should come stock from AFR at 62 or 63 cc . That would give most a 10.8 compression starting point.
The spring upgrade is only $80 and the milling was $100, so for $180 extra they are ready to go with most any cam out there. The base heads with the 66cc chamber and standard springs, ( good to .600) will sell for $2182, and we can work with our customers to up grade the springs and compression at a good price for the extras to keep the heads that we sell at $2360 with the higher compression and upgraded springs just like we installed on our car.
We are also going to get some bare blanks and send them to Jay at Absolute speed to see what he can do to specialize the package for us.
NOTE: These prices are slightly off from what I posted originally but I made a mistake.
Thanks,
Lou G
Last edited by LG Motorsports; 06-09-2004 at 01:52 PM.
06-09-2004 | 11:31 AM
#47
TECH Resident
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Charleston SC
Originally Posted by LG Motorsports
Hi Guys,
first off, I never put a ported head on a car in our shop without having the compression over 11:1 unless they were going to California or Az where the gas is bad.
So it was normal to match the compression of the heads that we usually install.
Next, we left the belts on and all the rest to see how they compare to similar head packages. We have seen similar numbers from the AS heads that Jay has done for us, but not quite as high with the same parts on the car. The only problem that the head porters have is that they have to start with a stock head which is slightly worse off.
I agree that when the porters get heads from AFR to work with I think it is just another bit of ammo for them. Just like when guys switch from LS1 heads to LS6 heads, the porters get better results with the LS6 heads. Now they just have a new head to start with, the LS-AFR.
As for starting with a 66cc chamber, that would give you a 10.24 compression ratio. I don't know many who have built a hot rod LS1 engine with 10.24:1 compression. Having said that I think the combustion chamber should come stock from AFR at 62 or 63 cc . That would give most a 10.8 compression starting point.
The spring upgrade is only $80 and the milling was $40, so for $120 extra they are ready to go with most any cam out there. The base heads with the 66cc chamber and standard springs, ( good to .600) will sell for $2249, and we can work with our customers to up grade the springs and compression at 1/2 price for the extras to keep the heads that we sell at $2299 with the higher compression and upgraded springs.
We are also going to get some bare blanks and send them to Jay at Absolute speed to see what he can do to specialize the package for us.
Thanks,
Lou G
first off, I never put a ported head on a car in our shop without having the compression over 11:1 unless they were going to California or Az where the gas is bad.
So it was normal to match the compression of the heads that we usually install.
Next, we left the belts on and all the rest to see how they compare to similar head packages. We have seen similar numbers from the AS heads that Jay has done for us, but not quite as high with the same parts on the car. The only problem that the head porters have is that they have to start with a stock head which is slightly worse off.
I agree that when the porters get heads from AFR to work with I think it is just another bit of ammo for them. Just like when guys switch from LS1 heads to LS6 heads, the porters get better results with the LS6 heads. Now they just have a new head to start with, the LS-AFR.
As for starting with a 66cc chamber, that would give you a 10.24 compression ratio. I don't know many who have built a hot rod LS1 engine with 10.24:1 compression. Having said that I think the combustion chamber should come stock from AFR at 62 or 63 cc . That would give most a 10.8 compression starting point.
The spring upgrade is only $80 and the milling was $40, so for $120 extra they are ready to go with most any cam out there. The base heads with the 66cc chamber and standard springs, ( good to .600) will sell for $2249, and we can work with our customers to up grade the springs and compression at 1/2 price for the extras to keep the heads that we sell at $2299 with the higher compression and upgraded springs.
We are also going to get some bare blanks and send them to Jay at Absolute speed to see what he can do to specialize the package for us.
Thanks,
Lou G
06-09-2004 | 03:14 PM
#48
I noticed the extra Compression as well and I believe the guys were only trying to compair apples to apples. The same C/R vs the same C/R would be awsome.
I do understand though that it is in LG's best intrest to have the heads milled because this is what you always do anyways.
I find it interesting that you guys say the numbers are similar to Stock ported LS6 heads but a little better. That right there says alot I believe.
I am sure you guys cant count the number of cars that come in and out of your shop that run the exact same setup but with Jay's heads. Out of all these car's the AFR headed car made the best power. That really says something as we all know the Jay is awsome when it come's to porting heads.
A question I have is without milling will you need to flycut with these heads?
Also in not then how much can you mill before you have to flycut?
Again thanks to the guys at LG motorsports for the results.
I cant wait to see what Jay does with these heads, and to only think that these are the baby's in the new family of AFR.
When the 225's come out we shall really see some impressive and outragious numbers.
I do understand though that it is in LG's best intrest to have the heads milled because this is what you always do anyways.
I find it interesting that you guys say the numbers are similar to Stock ported LS6 heads but a little better. That right there says alot I believe.
I am sure you guys cant count the number of cars that come in and out of your shop that run the exact same setup but with Jay's heads. Out of all these car's the AFR headed car made the best power. That really says something as we all know the Jay is awsome when it come's to porting heads.
A question I have is without milling will you need to flycut with these heads?
Also in not then how much can you mill before you have to flycut?
Again thanks to the guys at LG motorsports for the results.
I cant wait to see what Jay does with these heads, and to only think that these are the baby's in the new family of AFR.
When the 225's come out we shall really see some impressive and outragious numbers.
06-09-2004 | 06:03 PM
#50
Thread Starter
FormerVendor
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Dallas/Wylie Texas
We don't have enough experience with these yet. we just put them on and let em rip.
We will check the VP clearance next time. We just don't do many low compression packages. I don't know of any heads that were compared to stock compression. The whole object of installing heads is to increase the hp and that is not done as easily with stock compression.
I think it is a given that the AFR heads are better than stock LS6 heads. The question is whether they are better than ported LS6 heads. Personally I think so.
Lou G
We will check the VP clearance next time. We just don't do many low compression packages. I don't know of any heads that were compared to stock compression. The whole object of installing heads is to increase the hp and that is not done as easily with stock compression.
I think it is a given that the AFR heads are better than stock LS6 heads. The question is whether they are better than ported LS6 heads. Personally I think so.
Lou G
06-09-2004 | 07:08 PM
#52
Lou do you recommend 11.25 compression on a car for 93 octane all day long? Would you recommend racing with that compression on 93 octane or do you usually mix in some 100 octane?
06-09-2004 | 11:48 PM
#53
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From: Dallas/Wylie Texas
Originally Posted by maddboost
Lou do you recommend 11.25 compression on a car for 93 octane all day long? Would you recommend racing with that compression on 93 octane or do you usually mix in some 100 octane?
We have no proplem with 11.25 compression. We don't have to use any race gas until we get over 11.5 compression. Then it is all relative to what timing you are running.
Race gas will hurt torque in most street engines because it burns so slowly.
LG
06-10-2004 | 12:57 AM
#55
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,620
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From: BFE
Originally Posted by LG Motorsports
We will check the VP clearance next time. We just don't do many low compression packages. I don't know of any heads that were compared to stock compression. The whole object of installing heads is to increase the hp and that is not done as easily with stock compression.
Lou G
So why didn't AFR design the heads with 59cc to begin with.
06-10-2004 | 07:15 AM
#56
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
Wow what a statement, one could deduct that 205 AFR's 66cc are not worth the money over mildly ported 241 castings then?
So why didn't AFR design the heads with 59cc to begin with.
So why didn't AFR design the heads with 59cc to begin with.
Dude , every other post is you downing Afr.
It looks to me that they are better then most ported heads . May not have made 500 hp but look at that tq.
06-10-2004 | 09:16 AM
#57
6600 rpm clutch dump of death Administrator
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Texas
The real issue is with a big cam, you loose dynamic compression ratio known as DCR. With Lou's cams, it doesn't hurt to have a little more compression, as with all the overlap you bleed off some cylinder pressure. Now, you put that much compression on a motor with a higher DCR, and it would begin to detonate.
To decide on what size chamber you need, look at DCR rather than static compression.
From what I have seen the X3 is happy on pump gas at 11.4:1
To decide on what size chamber you need, look at DCR rather than static compression.
From what I have seen the X3 is happy on pump gas at 11.4:1
06-10-2004 | 09:46 AM
#58
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From: BFE
Originally Posted by AINT SKEERED
Dude , every other post is you downing Afr.
It looks to me that they are better then most ported heads . May not have made 500 hp but look at that tq.
It looks to me that they are better then most ported heads . May not have made 500 hp but look at that tq.
$2400.00 is not peanuts. I would like the best my money can buy. Unfortunatly, one has to be careful, and ask a lot of questions.
I do not like very high compression and 10:1>10.5:1 is my limit for what I have in mind. I'm a juicer, nitrous makes up for those 10-20 hps a head can't deliver. Although higher compression makes more power and N20 loves it; tuning becomes a more delicate matter (Not a genious at that yet).
