My LM7 Cam Idea
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From: Iowa
My LM7 Cam Idea Hey guys, i've been doing some searching, some thinking, and crunching of a few numbers. I know there is some real knowledge on here and was hoping I could bum some of it off you guys.
Lets start with some details and goals. The engine is a stock lm7 with an LS1 intake, longtubes, and .041 head gaskets. Static compression is 9.8:1
This engine is going in a full street weight s10 with a built 4l65e.
I want a fun weekend warrior that will have a good sound at idle, good low end torque, and still maintain decent drive-ability. Im sure there are more than a few off-the-shelf cams that will work, but I like being different for the sake of being different and at the same time, believe every setup can be more optimized.
I will be upgrading springs to either PAC of comp 918 beehives (both rated to .600 lift). Pushrods will be upgraded and stock rockers will be used. I hope to retain some spring longevity and stay safe lift-wise
My idea at the moment is
0.006 0.050 0.200 lift
Intake Duration - ID 271 222 144 .570
Exhaust Duration - ED 271 226 147 .571
with a 111 LSA on a 110 intake centerline.
Thoughts/comments/opinions?
I always appreciate constructive critisism and hope to just end up with a great cam.
Lets start with some details and goals. The engine is a stock lm7 with an LS1 intake, longtubes, and .041 head gaskets. Static compression is 9.8:1
This engine is going in a full street weight s10 with a built 4l65e.
I want a fun weekend warrior that will have a good sound at idle, good low end torque, and still maintain decent drive-ability. Im sure there are more than a few off-the-shelf cams that will work, but I like being different for the sake of being different and at the same time, believe every setup can be more optimized.
I will be upgrading springs to either PAC of comp 918 beehives (both rated to .600 lift). Pushrods will be upgraded and stock rockers will be used. I hope to retain some spring longevity and stay safe lift-wise
My idea at the moment is
0.006 0.050 0.200 lift
Intake Duration - ID 271 222 144 .570
Exhaust Duration - ED 271 226 147 .571
with a 111 LSA on a 110 intake centerline.
Thoughts/comments/opinions?
I always appreciate constructive critisism and hope to just end up with a great cam.
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From: Portland, Oregon
I'm not an expert on much of anything, definitely not camshafts, but it looks like you have a pretty solid cam mapped out.
Gtotoocool1 has a thread about his success with a similar cam. His is a 218/224 111+0, and he really seems to like it.
You said built 4l65e... What's the stall rpm? Rear end gears?
I would have cam motion grind the cam, personally. Really tame lobe profiles and the cores are made from excellent materials.
Also, if you get some springs rated for .650" of lift, you leave room to grow if you decide to take it to the next level. The "next level" being a 4000rpm stall, a 75mm hairdryer, and some 80# injectors. Your .570/.571 lift becomes .620/.621 with 1.85 ratio rockers, and most aftermarket rockers have upgraded trunion bearings. Just something to think about, considering that it seems everyone puts a turbo on their 5.3 eventually.
Gtotoocool1 has a thread about his success with a similar cam. His is a 218/224 111+0, and he really seems to like it.
You said built 4l65e... What's the stall rpm? Rear end gears?
I would have cam motion grind the cam, personally. Really tame lobe profiles and the cores are made from excellent materials.
Also, if you get some springs rated for .650" of lift, you leave room to grow if you decide to take it to the next level. The "next level" being a 4000rpm stall, a 75mm hairdryer, and some 80# injectors. Your .570/.571 lift becomes .620/.621 with 1.85 ratio rockers, and most aftermarket rockers have upgraded trunion bearings. Just something to think about, considering that it seems everyone puts a turbo on their 5.3 eventually.
Last edited by DavidBoren; Sep 30, 2015 at 09:16 AM.
You understand a LS1 intake is a step backwards for the truck intake?
When comparing cam result displacement and compression are big factors as are stall and gear.
5.7 and a 5.3 are NOT going to behave the same with the same cam. Displacement tames duration. Just setting to consider when benchracing a different engine
When comparing cam result displacement and compression are big factors as are stall and gear.
5.7 and a 5.3 are NOT going to behave the same with the same cam. Displacement tames duration. Just setting to consider when benchracing a different engine
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From: Portland, Oregon
The OP's proposed 222/226 cam seems a little on the large side for a 5.3 daily driver, and I think gtotoocool1's 218/225 cam, or something very similar, would be a better choice...
But, I don't know how the OP wants to drive his truck, or what gears/stall he is planning on using. If he likes to rev it up, then his proposed cam should be fine. He isn't way off in left field, maybe a little on the large side, but close nonetheless.
But then again, I'm not going to claim that I'm an expert. To be honest, I don't know ****.
But, I don't know how the OP wants to drive his truck, or what gears/stall he is planning on using. If he likes to rev it up, then his proposed cam should be fine. He isn't way off in left field, maybe a little on the large side, but close nonetheless.
But then again, I'm not going to claim that I'm an expert. To be honest, I don't know ****.
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From: Iowa
I definitely don't want a daily driver. This will be a weekend warrior at most. Truth be told, it's actually going to be a classic pickup on an s10 frame. I'm planning on around a 2800-3000 stall with most likely a 3.73 rear gear.
I stated that i'll be running a thinner gasket to yield 9.8:1 if that makes a difference in recommendation/opinion
I stated that i'll be running a thinner gasket to yield 9.8:1 if that makes a difference in recommendation/opinion
You know what you might like is the new TSP 600 lift lobes on a callies camshaft core. The new 600 series lobes are the replacement lobes to where we use to run XER stuff. It's more stable at rpm, easier on valvetrain & also quieter to reduce sewing machine sounds...
Checkout Gen3Performance on facebook. Scott installed a 600 lift TSP cam with the new lobes & made huge power gains!
Checkout Gen3Performance on facebook. Scott installed a 600 lift TSP cam with the new lobes & made huge power gains!
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
You know what you might like is the new TSP 600 lift lobes on a callies camshaft core. The new 600 series lobes are the replacement lobes to where we use to run XER stuff. It's more stable at rpm, easier on valvetrain & also quieter to reduce sewing machine sounds...
Checkout Gen3Performance on facebook. Scott installed a 600 lift TSP cam with the new lobes & made huge power gains!
Checkout Gen3Performance on facebook. Scott installed a 600 lift TSP cam with the new lobes & made huge power gains!
MaroonMonsterLS1, I like those specs. I'm not well versed on 5.3 but I think the 2* overlap would drive like 4 or 5 overlap on a 346. I agree with 96capricemgr about the truck intake.
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From: Iowa
The truck intake has more plenum volume and different runner design and thus is better for more torque correct?
I just hate the look of a truck intake and an ls6 is too damn hard to come by without somebody wanting you to give and arm and a leg for.
With a decent stall, and maybe if I stayed with the truck intake, would this cam still seem to be a bit on the large side (even considering the somewhat mild lift)? Again, It will not be a daily, it will get driven on weekends and maybe see a couple days at the drags.
I just hate the look of a truck intake and an ls6 is too damn hard to come by without somebody wanting you to give and arm and a leg for.
With a decent stall, and maybe if I stayed with the truck intake, would this cam still seem to be a bit on the large side (even considering the somewhat mild lift)? Again, It will not be a daily, it will get driven on weekends and maybe see a couple days at the drags.
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From: Iowa
I suppose I should also say that it has 862 heads. These aren't the coveted 799's that some newer 5.3's got but they will still get the job done. They flow prettymuch the same as the 241's on my camaro (give/take 3-4 cfm) all the way up to .600 lift
The 862 have the same ports as the 241 but have smaller intake valves, 1.89" I think vs. 2.00" so they do not flow the same. Your 222/226 can help matters. If you ever pull them, they can be opened up to 2.00" without replacing valve seats. Their benefit is the 61.15cc chamber size vs 66.7cc for the 241 or 64.45cc for the 799's.
Have you looked at the Tick sns1 mild for LS1 ? Also, if Jason 98 TA can suggest a 5.3 cam for you. 96capricemgr may suggest a cam spec for you too, he knows his stuff. Me, I like your specs.
Have you looked at the Tick sns1 mild for LS1 ? Also, if Jason 98 TA can suggest a 5.3 cam for you. 96capricemgr may suggest a cam spec for you too, he knows his stuff. Me, I like your specs.
For that much duration on a 5.3l I would aim for more stall and compression.
Far as the truck intake, the LS1 owners like to pretend it is a "torque piece" which is just bullshit because they want to believe their car got special parts rather than early development parts that left room for improvement. Truck intakes developed later with "lessons learned" and more room, it is just plain better.
http://www.hotrod.com/features/1507-...ifolds-tested/
With beehives you generally aren't going to want to go with a spring with far more lift capacity than you need, they usually like to be used somewhat near coil bind to help dampen surge, besides with an aftermarket cam springs become an MAINTENANCE ITEM so I just gave you two very goo reasons to not buy a .650 spring. You buy a .650 capable spring you are going to be miles from bind unless you shim the hell out of it and then it will be worn out before you ever get around to a next setup.
1.85 aftermarket rockers are heavier and harder to control, because of this nearly everyone including the vendors who sell the stuff recommend stock rockers with trunnion upgrade till using aftermarket heads with bronze guides.
Far as the truck intake, the LS1 owners like to pretend it is a "torque piece" which is just bullshit because they want to believe their car got special parts rather than early development parts that left room for improvement. Truck intakes developed later with "lessons learned" and more room, it is just plain better.
http://www.hotrod.com/features/1507-...ifolds-tested/
With beehives you generally aren't going to want to go with a spring with far more lift capacity than you need, they usually like to be used somewhat near coil bind to help dampen surge, besides with an aftermarket cam springs become an MAINTENANCE ITEM so I just gave you two very goo reasons to not buy a .650 spring. You buy a .650 capable spring you are going to be miles from bind unless you shim the hell out of it and then it will be worn out before you ever get around to a next setup.
1.85 aftermarket rockers are heavier and harder to control, because of this nearly everyone including the vendors who sell the stuff recommend stock rockers with trunnion upgrade till using aftermarket heads with bronze guides.
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Thanks for the input guys, I really appreciate it.
I don't have the link now (I'm on my phone) but when I get home I'll try to find it again. It has flow bench data for stock heads with stock valves. I believe they used 1 3/4 headers for those results and The 862's were Prettymuch neck and neck with the 241's. That's what I was basing my thought on, if it's inaccurate, please let me know, I'm always up to learn
So, I'd never heard that about beehives. I assumed staying away from the Max lift would be safest. Would I be better keeping similar durations at a higher lift, like say .585? I'm pretty sure I won't get anywhere near ptv clearance issues with the stock dished Pistons in there correct?
I don't have the link now (I'm on my phone) but when I get home I'll try to find it again. It has flow bench data for stock heads with stock valves. I believe they used 1 3/4 headers for those results and The 862's were Prettymuch neck and neck with the 241's. That's what I was basing my thought on, if it's inaccurate, please let me know, I'm always up to learn
So, I'd never heard that about beehives. I assumed staying away from the Max lift would be safest. Would I be better keeping similar durations at a higher lift, like say .585? I'm pretty sure I won't get anywhere near ptv clearance issues with the stock dished Pistons in there correct?
You aren't stacking the spring hard, just getting near, there is plenty of reading on it, don't trust me, trust a cam vendor like the sponsors here, NOT a catalog company, or Comp themselves.
Far as flowench, how many engines run with the valve held open a steady amount? None, there wouldn't need to be a valve if it was held open all the time. You are putting too much faith in the flowbench.
Far as flowench, how many engines run with the valve held open a steady amount? None, there wouldn't need to be a valve if it was held open all the time. You are putting too much faith in the flowbench.
This is a big FWIW. I have an LS-10. The truck intake would not clear the hood if I had wanted it to.
I used a ported LS2 intake.
96 is correct. The truck intake outflows the LS1 intake from idle to redline.
I used a ported LS2 intake.
96 is correct. The truck intake outflows the LS1 intake from idle to redline.
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That seems a little big compared to what i'm used to but i'm sure I can find someone to ride with to feel how a big stall feels.
I've been looking through the comp cams lobe list. The XE lobes seem ok or maybe even magnum roller lobes but I don't see any specific lobes that match what I want. The XE-R lobes seem like they'll be a little too extreme for me.
Where is a good place to start looking for different lobe designs with varying ramp rates? Or is there a design that you would recommend? I'm wanting to stay with a comp grind because most kits offered come with a comp core.
I've been looking through the comp cams lobe list. The XE lobes seem ok or maybe even magnum roller lobes but I don't see any specific lobes that match what I want. The XE-R lobes seem like they'll be a little too extreme for me.
Where is a good place to start looking for different lobe designs with varying ramp rates? Or is there a design that you would recommend? I'm wanting to stay with a comp grind because most kits offered come with a comp core.
That seems a little big compared to what i'm used to but i'm sure I can find someone to ride with to feel how a big stall feels.
I've been looking through the comp cams lobe list. The XE lobes seem ok or maybe even magnum roller lobes but I don't see any specific lobes that match what I want. The XE-R lobes seem like they'll be a little too extreme for me.
Where is a good place to start looking for different lobe designs with varying ramp rates? Or is there a design that you would recommend? I'm wanting to stay with a comp grind because most kits offered come with a comp core.
I've been looking through the comp cams lobe list. The XE lobes seem ok or maybe even magnum roller lobes but I don't see any specific lobes that match what I want. The XE-R lobes seem like they'll be a little too extreme for me.
Where is a good place to start looking for different lobe designs with varying ramp rates? Or is there a design that you would recommend? I'm wanting to stay with a comp grind because most kits offered come with a comp core.
If I were going to buy a 222/226 111+1 with Comp lobes I would ask for LXL lobes. To order that you would say:
13157 ICL = 110
13158 ECL = 112
Lifts would be .602 intake and .605 exhaust.
As for compression, those dished pistons hurt you. You say you have 9.8 to 1 static with 0.041 head gaskets. That means your total chamber size (head chamber + dish + gasket) is around 71cc and the 222/226 would give a dynamic compression of 7.8 to 1 , no easy answers there. Compression helps low rpm torque which can make a Too-Large cam behave better. I think this is what 96capricemgr was getting at but the important number is cylinder pressure.
Would I be better keeping similar durations at a higher lift, like say .585? I'm pretty sure I won't get anywhere near ptv clearance issues with the stock dished Pistons in there correct?
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I meant that at those durations, increasing lift by 15 thousands would not make any significant ptv issues.
As far as a kit goes, I think it will be the best option in my case still. I am going to get a full gasket set, oil pan to intake, and freshening the thing up while I have it out. I'll also be getting a new crank bolt as well as new head bolts and exhaust manifold bolts. So, since i'm already getting that stuff, I think it'll be best for my wallet if I can save a buck or two by going with a kit that bundles cam/springs/pushrods.
As far as the LXL lobes go, they seem like they'd work great! the only thing is they surpass .600 lfit so it would max out the springs I was looking into going with. Thats not really a big deal as I can always just go with PAC 1219 springs good to .625
Thanks for your input guys, I appreciate it.
As far as a kit goes, I think it will be the best option in my case still. I am going to get a full gasket set, oil pan to intake, and freshening the thing up while I have it out. I'll also be getting a new crank bolt as well as new head bolts and exhaust manifold bolts. So, since i'm already getting that stuff, I think it'll be best for my wallet if I can save a buck or two by going with a kit that bundles cam/springs/pushrods.
As far as the LXL lobes go, they seem like they'd work great! the only thing is they surpass .600 lfit so it would max out the springs I was looking into going with. Thats not really a big deal as I can always just go with PAC 1219 springs good to .625
Thanks for your input guys, I appreciate it.
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Ok, so I think i've settled on:
222/226
.600/.607
111 LSA
110 ICL
LXL lobes
I'll use PAC 1219 springs, new set of lifters, and .080 wall chromoly pushrods.
This is partially to sum up my plans so I can reference later if I ever forget any part of it, and also so anyone that has some advice or opinion can see my *tentatively* final decision
222/226
.600/.607
111 LSA
110 ICL
LXL lobes
I'll use PAC 1219 springs, new set of lifters, and .080 wall chromoly pushrods.
This is partially to sum up my plans so I can reference later if I ever forget any part of it, and also so anyone that has some advice or opinion can see my *tentatively* final decision