H/C Install and now totally confused.
Originally Posted by 35thss2
ok I'm a newbie here but I'm curious how do you degree a cam wrong
the reason I'm asking is because my cam numbers were lower than normal also after dyno tuning
I have a 2002 SS with a F13 and I dynoed @ 367rwhp and 351 trq
the reason I'm asking is because my cam numbers were lower than normal also after dyno tuning
I have a 2002 SS with a F13 and I dynoed @ 367rwhp and 351 trq
When you install the cam you have to make sure you line the two dots on the gears dot to dot, 1 tooth off can really mess up your #'s
Exactly what V8maro said, if it's off, it will hinder performance, which may be the case, but any knowledgable shop should know this and will make sure it's right, if you did it yourself, I would take the cover off and check to make sure it's dot to dot.
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Something does not seem right with the torque number. Chris had no other idea except the cats? I have a head and cam car that with an automatic made 345 torque@5000 on that dyno. I would upload the graph from my car but I have no way to do so. Why are you running cats on your car?
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Originally Posted by Orange Peel
Did you guys degree the new cam wrong?? That will really jack up your numbers. Just something to check off the "if" list.
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Originally Posted by Orange Peel
Exactly what V8maro said, if it's off, it will hinder performance, which may be the case, but any knowledgable shop should know this and will make sure it's right, if you did it yourself, I would take the cover off and check to make sure it's dot to dot.
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Originally Posted by GPowrie
Something does not seem right with the torque number. Chris had no other idea except the cats? I have a head and cam car that with an automatic made 345 torque@5000 on that dyno. I would upload the graph from my car but I have no way to do so. Why are you running cats on your car?
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Here are some of my questions, hopefully some of you guys out there have answers. What would happen to the torque if the cam, which I believe has 2 degrees of advance ground into the cam, is advanced an additional 4 degrees. What problems can you run into if you degree the cam if you just check the centerline of the cam? How far off can it be. And what if you put in an additional 5 degrees of timing into the thing. How would this affect the hp and the torque.
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First ? Do you still have the stock rockers on ? or did you go with aftermarkets? I had a similar issue........Stock engine with small bolt ons 298hp 313tq.....With TR 230/236 cam ( and a TC ) 354hp 440tq..Once I installed my PP Stage 2's 387hp and 426tq. I lost about 20ft lbs with the install of better heads over the stockers. May be something to look into.
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Originally Posted by bambamz
First ? Do you still have the stock rockers on ? or did you go with aftermarkets? I had a similar issue........Stock engine with small bolt ons 298hp 313tq.....With TR 230/236 cam ( and a TC ) 354hp 440tq..Once I installed my PP Stage 2's 387hp and 426tq. I lost about 20ft lbs with the install of better heads over the stockers. May be something to look into.
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OK......I initially had YT 1.7's on mine and found out they only actually go to 1.67. They were robbing HP. Had to swap em out. That was my only real thought.....You could always go the quickest route to fix your problem and spend about as much as that Camshaft..............N2O.........Fixes what ailes ya!
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Well just to help you out a little from the dyno side to compare numbers. I dyno's on a mustang dyno (had my base dyno there before h/c) and I partially tuned the car in on it. Car put down 426/383 or something close. I then took it to mikey at Rapid and he did the full tune on the dyno jet and I put down 447/395. Check my sig for mods. I don't have the 12 bolt so it would obviously put down less but I think those numbers are way off for you however, it def. could simply be the dyno is having problems or their a/f box sucks. You might want to go to another dyno and pay just for 2 pulls with a/f and see what it is saying.
To answer your question, if you put more advance into the cam your peak power will generally happen at a lower RPM. You were peaking at 6600 rpm, so I do not think that is the problem. I am still looking into this for you, Bill.
Thanks,
Thanks,
Originally Posted by SS125
Here are some of my questions, hopefully some of you guys out there have answers. What would happen to the torque if the cam, which I believe has 2 degrees of advance ground into the cam, is advanced an additional 4 degrees. What problems can you run into if you degree the cam if you just check the centerline of the cam? How far off can it be. And what if you put in an additional 5 degrees of timing into the thing. How would this affect the hp and the torque.
If you are doing it the mechanical way, you could run into PtoV issues. I am confident that APE installed your cam right, they are very competent there. Now if the dyno calibration is off, I'd love to re-dyno also just for ***** and giggles. But I have a feeling it's calibrated right.
-Steve
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I didn't say APE was not competent. They are very competent I've talked with Chris several times over the last couple of days and I have no doubt as to APE's competency. I'm just grasping at straws right now trying to figure out where the torque has gone. I've talked to Jason at Texas Speed and he says at a minimum, the cam should give me 15 ft lbs of torque and the heads probably another 15. Now, mathematically, that would mean that I should have gone from 355 ft lbs of torque to 385, instead it's at 339. That is a loss of 46 ft lbs of torque. That is not right, so is the cam ground wrong. That was the thought. Chris even said the other day he figures head and cam worth an increase of 80 hp. Well, I got 50. Something just does not appear right, that's my only point. But I have not even questioned Chris's or APE's competency.
Originally Posted by v8maro
When you say "is advanced an additional 4 degrees." Do you mean the dot to dot advanced way or by tuning?
If you are doing it the mechanical way, you could run into PtoV issues. I am confident that APE installed your cam right, they are very competent there. Now if the dyno calibration is off, I'd love to re-dyno also just for ***** and giggles. But I have a feeling it's calibrated right.
-Steve
If you are doing it the mechanical way, you could run into PtoV issues. I am confident that APE installed your cam right, they are very competent there. Now if the dyno calibration is off, I'd love to re-dyno also just for ***** and giggles. But I have a feeling it's calibrated right.
-Steve
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I'm going to put the race pipes on tomorrow and have the car redyno'd on a dyno jet. I don't know what else to do. Anybody have any other ideas as to what happend to the torque?
Originally Posted by SS125
I'm going to put the race pipes on tomorrow and have the car redyno'd on a dyno jet. I don't know what else to do. Anybody have any other ideas as to what happend to the torque?
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Originally Posted by gomer
I think you have made the right decision to pull it on a dynojet. After you have numbers we can all compare to, then we can make a more informed diagnosis on your problems.
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Dude to really compare the numbers to others go to a dynojet that will give you a much better idea of where you stand compared ot others on here. Mustang dynos are great for tuning but not for comparing numbers.
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I got the racepipes on today. I started this thing with the headers open. OH MY GOD, scared the hell out of the dog and wife just standing there screaming "don't even tell me it's going to sound like this". I put the magnaflow back on and to tell you the truth, I not real happy with the sound. Sounds real tinny. Any suggestions?
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From: "Tr"Asheville
that is kinda odd because HP is a calculation of torque so thus since the increase in hp and loss in torque just wouldn't add up. I don't remember the calculation off of the top of my head but somethings not right lol.
-Sly
-Sly