Illegal Vette

I just read a thread where this was discussed, and it knocked me for a loop! There was nothing about it in my copy of "How to Rebuild GM LS-Series Engines" so when I was assembling my engine I just bolted on my oil pump and moved on to the next thing. Do I now have to take my engine back apart and do this thing? It's a stroker 5.3 with a Tick blueprinted LS6 oil pump.

Undertow74

iTrader: (45)

You don't have to but I recommend it. It's simple takes less than 5 minutes. You just need 6 feeler gauges and unbolt the pump front cover

Illegal Vette

It sure would have been easier before I put the front cover, balancer and oil pan on!

parrisw

How is it done?

the404man

See Melling Engine Parts youtube videos, he tells ya just what to do, Note:"sacrificial ring" but in most causes its not needed, its only for the hi-performance pumps.

foxsl

iTrader: (1)

Now that raises some confusion, do they really mean the shimming is needed for high performance applications where you will usually be revving 6000 - 7000 rpm?

As the hi-po pump reference with shimming makes it sound like they are sloppily put together or rather for a wide range of adjustable clearance. What happens if you are installing an M295 stock replacement pump (step below a 10295 and 2 steps below a 10296)?

** I emailed Melling about M295 shimming so I'll relay the reply when it comes**

vettenuts

iTrader: (4)

I love it where he says installation in this manner voids the warranty. I have yet to hear a good explanation as to why this is necessary and what the detriment is in not doing this.

Illegal Vette

Thanks for that, I now accept the inevitability of having to do this and am just grateful that I stumbled across it before starting the engine.

Illegal Vette

Here's an answer to that I found: http://www.d-aperformanceengines.com...alginment.html

parrisw

So you can finger tighten bolts, then rotate engine? Seems odd, but I guess it would centre.

svede1212

iTrader: (3)

Really stupid Melling shows disassembling the pump to install and yet your warranty is voided if you do. 99% of people bolt it up and go. I found there was very little "adjustment" at best and I guarantee GM just bolts it up.

parrisw

I'm going to look it up today and see what GM says. Will report back.

the404man

Hey thanks for that now im going to redo my pump alignment, by this link, seems melling has it wrong ..

Makes much more sense to filler gauge the back ring and front cover or at lest the back ring, i have also noticed on the crankshaft snout gearing for the pump, there is a ring around it from wear, from where the back of the pump ring, where the "sacrificial ring" should be, is ribbing on it, i didn't like that, so i realigned it once... as per mellings video.. i have the melling 10295, it doesn't have the "sacrificial ring" on the back as does the stock pump.. Edit:12-5-15 Well today i was looking over my video footage and noticed the melling 10295 DOES have the "sacrificial ring" though it does sale as the hi-performance pump on summitracing.. neways wanted to come note this !

On the stock pump there is this ever so slight ring, id say something like 0.020 high by 0.030 wide, then the normal ring

Though to note, i have used this same pump 10295 on another engine and didn't align it one bit, worked fine, for 5 years, pump has no wear on it, noticed a ring around the crankshaft snout gearing on it too, but no wear on the pump, that engine seen 6700rpm..

Perhaps this ring wear on the crank snout gearing was from the stock pump and i just didn't notice it before hand..

Edit: Also to note, iv also bolted the pump up just slapped it on, then use the filler gauges and they always slip right in, no adjustment needed.. and as svede1212 states "I found there was very little "adjustment" at best", i can back that.. iv tired aligning it wrong but no can do.. the filler gauges always slip in..

Edit: On 2nt thought im going to un-align and run it, going to slap it on there, just to see what happens im sure there will be a video about it either way Peace

gagliano7

I did mine the proper way with the feeler gauges but there was very little movement. I am sure you can just bolt it on and be fine. I guarantee you that 99% of mechanics and back yard mechanics just bolt it on.

foxsl

iTrader: (1)

The Melling tech said shimming is not needed on the M295.

Illegal Vette

It would appear then that if you were to just bolt one on without aligning it, the GM pump would cause you the least worry. Here's how GM does it:

JamesTheGreat

I found a video, that was part of the original GM Teardown and Assembly instructions for GM techs.
It's been reposted on YouTube a few times, and I'll add a link for a copy of it.
Go to timestamp 19:59 and see the oil pump install instructions. The GM guild doesn't mention anything about aligning the pump.

And this would make sense, since GM isn't going to have a tech shim the pump with feeler gauges or spend time spinning the DRY motor over to align something.
From an engineering point of view, this type of stuff is designed to literally be "THROWN" together and work. So many of these motors have 300k or more miles stock. I know they were not factory "aligned" and were just bolted together.
Check out the time in the LS Assembly video I posted. I think GM knows best.
time 19:59

G Atsma

Who are you asking??
This thread is over 7 years old.

grinder11

iTrader: (1)

This is one of those things that isn't absolutely necessary, but you're better off doing it. My factory GM service manual(s) for my 2000 C5 make no mention of doing it. If you really want to do it, you can use two feeler gages, as the YT video by "That Engine Guy" shows. Some just lightly tighten the pump bolts, then spin the engine over once or twice by hand, then torque the pump bolts down. I'd recommend doing it, but if it were me, and I had everything all back in place, including the steering rack, I'd probably send it. If the steering rack was still not bolted on, I'd probably pull the balancer and cover, and do it one of the 2 ways I mentioned above. Best of luck......

JamesTheGreat

Who am I? Why does that matter?
I just uploaded video proof that GM doesn't align them from the factory, so that should answer this question definitively.
I cam across this thread in a google search for timing cover alignment tools..
Something that I don't see discussed enough is using the spacers behind an oil pump on an LS when running a Double Roller Timing Chain.
I found my oil pump bolt heads hit my timing cover causing it not the seal against the gasket correctly, and thus used flat, torx head bolts for my oil pump which then clears the cover. The next issue is the oil pickup, which is then moved forward about 3mm, causing the tube to not align properly, and then if using a 2nd hold down bolt and braket, causes another timing cover impact point, needing to be clearanced..
Over the past 20years, I've built over 100 SBC engines from stock to over 600RWHP NA.. 1 BBC that made 500RWHP NA, and now 2 LS engines.. Both 6.0L and one is just a stock LQ9 with cam, and the other is basically an LS2, (but an iron block) converted to a Gen4 Setup with Side Mounted knock sensors and timing cover cam sensor, as well as the block drilled and tapped to accept a timing chain damper. Ceramic Coated Flat top Pistons, Melling HV-HP oil pump, Gen4 Rods, Clevite Coated Cam, Rod, & Main Bearings, Ported 243 Heads w/ Comp Roller Bearing Rockers, Stainless Valves and TSP .660" Dual Spring Kit with PAC Springs w/ Titanium Retainers, TSP220R cam, 3/8" Chromoly Pushrods, GM Performance LS7 Lifters (with ceramic check ball), 50lb @58psi Injectors, ARP Studs for head and bottom end...
Block line honed for studs.. FAST LSXr Intake w/ 102mm Throttle Body... Polished Stainless Steel long tube headers.
This setup (Currently using the GM Gen4 ECU, Tuned with HP Tuners MVPI2) makes a little over 500HP & 540FtLbs Torque at the Rear Wheels of my 2000 Silverado which is what this was put in..
Next upgrade will probably be Holley Terminator X Setup.

Next build is going to be the 5.3L that came out of the 2000 Silverado and when done, that will replace the 454 in my 98 K2500...

Thats who I am. lol

The Iron Block LS2 build in my 2000 Silverado