800 miles, Valve Spring broken = engine toast
If I were in your shoes, I'd have no problem throwing said vendor under the bus. Their **** product fucked you out of a ton of money, so I'd have no problem making sure to smear their name all over the place so their business fails and no one else has to go through what you did.
I dunno, I never PM'd him, I can just smell **** from a mile away. The moment I saw group purchase I had a feeling. I forgot you got one of their brown box blemish specials as well, since a carrying case somehow negates the cost of a product? Even though it's included in the original purchase......
If I were in your shoes, I'd have no problem throwing said vendor under the bus. Their **** product fucked you out of a ton of money, so I'd have no problem making sure to smear their name all over the place so their business fails and no one else has to go through what you did.
Valvesprings are a pretty critical component in an engine. Not something you want to cheap out on. Colorado Speed sells other brands of springs too, including BTR, but if these really are the PEP springs that are less than $200 on eBay, and the OP got these on a Group Purchase, these were probably the cheapest dual springs on the market. If that's the case, the OP bears some of the blame IMO.
I'd want to know more about the valvetrain and the installation/setup before going and pointing fingers and dragging someone's name through the mud.
Not so fast.
Valvesprings are a pretty critical component in an engine. Not something you want to cheap out on. Colorado Speed sells other brands of springs too, including BTR, but if these really are the PEP springs that are less than $200 on eBay, and the OP got these on a Group Purchase, these were probably the cheapest dual springs on the market. If that's the case, the OP bears some of the blame IMO.
I'd want to know more about the valvetrain and the installation/setup before going and pointing fingers and dragging someone's name through the mud.
Valvesprings are a pretty critical component in an engine. Not something you want to cheap out on. Colorado Speed sells other brands of springs too, including BTR, but if these really are the PEP springs that are less than $200 on eBay, and the OP got these on a Group Purchase, these were probably the cheapest dual springs on the market. If that's the case, the OP bears some of the blame IMO.
I'd want to know more about the valvetrain and the installation/setup before going and pointing fingers and dragging someone's name through the mud.
"Spoke with customer service at the spring sponsor today. Based on info I've received in PM's and the few people that chimed in here, it seems that these springs were simply re-badged PEP ebay springs, which is really disappointing...."
KCS, based on what the OP stated, he made it sound like these springs were marketed as another brand and not what they ended up being. It wasn't until this happened and he called the company he purchased them from that they told him what brand they truly were. That is why I stated what I did. If the way I'm interpreting this is correct, that's a classic case of false advertising and the OP is not at fault if he thought he was getting what was advertised by said company.
Did you see the OP's update? The response makes me think he was not aware of what the springs actually were that the vendor sold him.
"Spoke with customer service at the spring sponsor today. Based on info I've received in PM's and the few people that chimed in here, it seems that these springs were simply re-badged PEP ebay springs, which is really disappointing...."
"Spoke with customer service at the spring sponsor today. Based on info I've received in PM's and the few people that chimed in here, it seems that these springs were simply re-badged PEP ebay springs, which is really disappointing...."
KCS, based on what the OP stated, he made it sound like these springs were marketed as another brand and not what they ended up being. It wasn't until this happened and he called the company he purchased them from that they told him what brand they truly were. That is why I stated what I did. If the way I'm interpreting this is correct, that's a classic case of false advertising and the OP is not at fault if he thought he was getting what was advertised by said company.
Second, almost all springs are rebranded. There are very few manufacturers, so all these springs you buy from BTR, PRC, AFR, TFS, etc etc etc are actually manufactured by another brand. I bought valves from TFS and they came in a Ferrea box. If Colorado Speed sells a 1.30" diameter spring rated at 150lbs/400lbs, and that's exactly what he got, how is that misleading? Because Colorado Speed didn't make them? How many of you actually know what company made your springs?
There's nothing wrong with that. It's common practice. However, if you see that one brand is much cheaper than another (PEP vs PAC/KMotion), you shouldn't get too upset when they fail...especially when we're talking valvesprings. That's all I'm saying. I know they're not everyone's favorite vendor, but I'd give them a chance to tell their side of the story.
Its all about what the vendor said the springs were in the group purchase. If the OP is strill trying to figure out what the springs are because they were represented as something else, how is that not getting screwed? Are you familiar with drop shipping? Plenty of people resell others companies stuff as their own with a label change like you mentioned. What the vendor said they were makes all the difference as to whether or not they were up front about the spring brand and quality.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
Thread Starter
11 Second Club
iTrader: (15)
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 603
Likes: 3
From: Royal Oak, Mi
Many people chiming in. The vender I dealt with sold them as their own spring in a group purchase. If you go on eBay and look up PEP springs, the packaging is exactly as I remember getting my Vender branded springs. On top of that, I've had other people contact me and informed me that the vender I dealt with had sold X brand springs and advertised them as Y brand in the passed. Also, the customer service rep seemed extremely nervous while I was on the phone with them explaining that a spring failed with so little useage on it that it raised concerns. Above are the facts, you can draw your own conclusion.
Many people chiming in. The vender I dealt with sold them as their own spring in a group purchase. If you go on eBay and look up PEP springs, the packaging is exactly as I remember getting my Vender branded springs. On top of that, I've had other people contact me and informed me that the vender I dealt with had sold X brand springs and advertised them as Y brand in the passed. Also, the customer service rep seemed extremely nervous while I was on the phone with them explaining that a spring failed with so little useage on it that it raised concerns. Above are the facts, you can draw your own conclusion.
Last edited by ddnspider; Jun 14, 2016 at 05:02 PM.
Its all about what the vendor said the springs were in the group purchase. If the OP is strill trying to figure out what the springs are because they were represented as something else, how is that not getting screwed? Are you familiar with drop shipping? Plenty of people resell others companies stuff as their own with a label change like you mentioned. What the vendor said they were makes all the difference as to whether or not they were up front about the spring brand and quality.
Many people chiming in. The vender I dealt with sold them as their own spring in a group purchase. If you go on eBay and look up PEP springs, the packaging is exactly as I remember getting my Vender branded springs. On top of that, I've had other people contact me and informed me that the vender I dealt with had sold X brand springs and advertised them as Y brand in the passed. Also, the customer service rep seemed extremely nervous while I was on the phone with them explaining that a spring failed with so little useage on it that it raised concerns. Above are the facts, you can draw your own conclusion.
I can still see a link to the valvesprings on the Group Purchase thread and it goes to a Straub spring kit. Are those the same springs?
You said you had .675" lift springs but I don't see any .675" lift spring kits from PEP, only .650" lift springs.
From what the OP said, they were sold as their own house brand. If CoSpeed has PEP make them a valvespring that they sell under their own house brand, how is that different than BTR or AFR that also has an outside company make a spring to sell under their house brand? Seriously, real question. I want to know how that's different in your eyes.
I take it you already know who the vendor is? Do you have an affiliation with them or are friends with people who work there? Just curious.
Popular quality performance valve springs are only made by a few companies, PAC & Associated probably make most of so called house brands.
Associated made Patriot springs & for a other people on here as well as Manley, Comp & ?
I'd bet that every professional drag & circle track car has either PSI or PAC & as far as I know are the only US made springs.
Associated & PAC made a few bad springs in the past.
I know what distributors & dealers pay for good springs, if you buy any low $ spring you will regret it.
Associated made Patriot springs & for a other people on here as well as Manley, Comp & ?
I'd bet that every professional drag & circle track car has either PSI or PAC & as far as I know are the only US made springs.
Associated & PAC made a few bad springs in the past.
I know what distributors & dealers pay for good springs, if you buy any low $ spring you will regret it.
Let me put it this way......when you walk in Autozone or Advance Auto Parts and you need a water pump, timing belt kit, etc.; you have the OEM's, the top tier vendors, and the bottom feeders. Are most/all of the different tier stuff all made potentially on the same production line in a 3rd world country? Yes....so whats the difference? There is a difference in the acceptable tolerance and inspection steps in the manufacturing process. It happens in the electronics world too. When a high end brand fails a given quality step, it becomes their 2nd tier brand instead. So if company X has a good reputation and is selling valve springs under their brand name, and in reality the springs are a relabeled Y brand which are known to be of lesser quality, I have an issue with that.
BTW, besides buying from them a few times, no affiliations, no personal relationships, and no, I'm not defending them because they're a Sponsor. I have spent the last decade building LS motors and seeing how quick someone will place blame when something goes wrong.
Like I originally said, valvesprings are one of the most critical components in an engine. If he bought LS7 lifters and the roller came apart, there would be at least half a dozen people saying he shouldn't have cheapened out on lifters and should have spent more money on Johnson/Morel/etc. Yet here we are, he bought some of the cheapest valvesprings on the market and when they fail, everyone is losing their minds because it was "rebadged", presumably manufactured by a company most LS people have probably never even used before.
My Brian Tooley .650 platinum springs were $149 shipped....Are they going to be as good as a PAC .650 kit, no.....do I expect them to be better than some Chinese knock-off kit, hell yes. Why? Because they are advertised and sold as Brian Tooley springs, not as rebranded Chinese springs with a BTR label on them. So even if they're made in china, they're at least made to his spec's and he stands behind them. Based on the OP's post in this thread, the springs he bought were sold as a reputable vendor's springs and in actuality are chinese ebay springs known to have poor quality.
From the OP,
"The vender I dealt with sold them as their own spring in a group purchase. If you go on eBay and look up PEP springs, the packaging is exactly as I remember getting my Vender branded springs. On top of that, I've had other people contact me and informed me that the vender I dealt with had sold X brand springs and advertised them as Y brand in the passed. "
That is entire basis of my argument. If they were the vendors own springs and they failed, ok stuff happens. If they were ADVERTISED as rebranded Chinese springs than its buyer-beware. NEITHER OF THOSE IS THE SCENARIO.
And I didn't feel the needs to dig through old post/threads to hunt down the Sponsor when the OP said a simple PM would tell me who it was...
From the OP,
"The vender I dealt with sold them as their own spring in a group purchase. If you go on eBay and look up PEP springs, the packaging is exactly as I remember getting my Vender branded springs. On top of that, I've had other people contact me and informed me that the vender I dealt with had sold X brand springs and advertised them as Y brand in the passed. "
That is entire basis of my argument. If they were the vendors own springs and they failed, ok stuff happens. If they were ADVERTISED as rebranded Chinese springs than its buyer-beware. NEITHER OF THOSE IS THE SCENARIO.
And I didn't feel the needs to dig through old post/threads to hunt down the Sponsor when the OP said a simple PM would tell me who it was...
You also see that level of quality reflected in the price, don't you? I'm looking at AC compressors for my car. I see they range from $200 off ebay to $500 at the parts store. I would not expect a $200 part to be as high quality as a $500 part. As such, PEP has .650" lift spring kits for less than $200 on eBay. PAC has a .650" lift spring kits for almost $500. It doesn't matter what brand, you cannot expect a $200 product to be as good as a $500 product.
You don't have to be a Moderator to figure it out. Anyone can search through any member's posts and see what threads they have posted in about buying valvesprings.
BTW, besides buying from them a few times, no affiliations, no personal relationships, and no, I'm not defending them because they're a Sponsor. I have spent the last decade building LS motors and seeing how quick someone will place blame when something goes wrong.
Like I originally said, valvesprings are one of the most critical components in an engine. If he bought LS7 lifters and the roller came apart, there would be at least half a dozen people saying he shouldn't have cheapened out on lifters and should have spent more money on Johnson/Morel/etc. Yet here we are, he bought some of the cheapest valvesprings on the market and when they fail, everyone is losing their minds because it was "rebadged", presumably manufactured by a company most LS people have probably never even used before.
You don't have to be a Moderator to figure it out. Anyone can search through any member's posts and see what threads they have posted in about buying valvesprings.
BTW, besides buying from them a few times, no affiliations, no personal relationships, and no, I'm not defending them because they're a Sponsor. I have spent the last decade building LS motors and seeing how quick someone will place blame when something goes wrong.
Like I originally said, valvesprings are one of the most critical components in an engine. If he bought LS7 lifters and the roller came apart, there would be at least half a dozen people saying he shouldn't have cheapened out on lifters and should have spent more money on Johnson/Morel/etc. Yet here we are, he bought some of the cheapest valvesprings on the market and when they fail, everyone is losing their minds because it was "rebadged", presumably manufactured by a company most LS people have probably never even used before.
Thread Starter
11 Second Club
iTrader: (15)
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 603
Likes: 3
From: Royal Oak, Mi
This is the main reason I feel burnt by the vendor. Did I do enough research when shopping valve springs? No, that's on me. Did I intend on buying ebay quality parts? No, that's on the vendor. Did I think I needed to do additional research? No, because it was a group purchase on the most popular LS based forum and I didn't think I had anything to worry about. Based on the people that have individually contacted me and others that have posted on this thread, multiple people have had less than ideal encounters with this vendor and I feel LS1tech should take some kind of action against the vendor.
Let me put it this way......when you walk in Autozone or Advance Auto Parts and you need a water pump, timing belt kit, etc.; you have the OEM's, the top tier vendors, and the bottom feeders. Are most/all of the different tier stuff all made potentially on the same production line in a 3rd world country? Yes....so whats the difference? There is a difference in the acceptable tolerance and inspection steps in the manufacturing process.
Not related exactly but I also worked in the food production industry, We had many recipes that were produced exactly the all the way down the line until they reached the labeler and then they were labeled either premium brand or generic depending on who we were packaging it for. This is also done with more and more products all the time. For example you could have bought a high end Denon multi disc CD player for your home for about $350 or you could buy the exact same thing (inside and out) with a Sony label for $225. When you buy Bose you pay a premium price for a not so premium product,but again you are paying for the name. The name they spend millions of dollars on advertising to build up.
Last edited by LLLosingit; Jun 14, 2016 at 10:45 PM.
Was in the business for many years and in some cases you are right but in many cases the difference in price is in the warranty only, You can have the same part roll off the assembly line and get different labels. One may sell for $20 and come with a 1 year warranty and the same part with a different label will come with a life time warranty and cost you $35. This is the case with many different types of parts including tires and batteries, Higher price does not always mean better unless you want to pay extra for a longer warranty!
Not related exactly but I also worked in the food production industry, We had many recipes that were produced exactly the all the way down the line until they reached the labeler and then they were labeled either premium brand or generic depending on who we were packaging it for. This is also done with more and more products all the time. For example you could have bought a high end Denon multi disc CD player for your home for about $350 or you could buy the exact same thing (inside and out) with a Sony label for $225. When you buy Bose you pay a premium price for a not so premium product,but again you are paying for the name. The name they spend millions of dollars on advertising to build up.
Not related exactly but I also worked in the food production industry, We had many recipes that were produced exactly the all the way down the line until they reached the labeler and then they were labeled either premium brand or generic depending on who we were packaging it for. This is also done with more and more products all the time. For example you could have bought a high end Denon multi disc CD player for your home for about $350 or you could buy the exact same thing (inside and out) with a Sony label for $225. When you buy Bose you pay a premium price for a not so premium product,but again you are paying for the name. The name they spend millions of dollars on advertising to build up.