Advice on engine purchase
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Sep 2016
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Advice on engine purchase Hey guys
This will be my 1st post - Im looking to do an LS variant swap into a 57 Chevy panel truck. With so many options and not having done this before - I have a bunch of simple questions.
Engine
Obviously a lot of variants. I come from a 700HP+ diesel background. I rode in my mates 2016 365hp F150 ecoboost - wasnt for me ...... maybe traction control even though we had in sport mode and traction off.
So thinking 400hp+
LS2/LS3 - I'm there ... but lots of $$. Say $3k-$6k.
5.3 truck - now closer to 300HP at $1k. But now need to add CAM, SPRINGS, ROCKERS and HEADS.
The heads in particular look really expensive to bridge that next 100HP ......
Looks like you need to add around $2500 here. So now your in the $3500 range for 400hp. Thats very close to a used LS2 ($3700)
So - loosely it seems like your better off to go with a true LS2 variant .... think it saves you on the oil pan issue too ......
Then theres the 6.0 which kind of bridges the gap. But still adds up the same.
Not sure what size turbo you would need to go FI later ..... just for extra 75-125+ HP. I know plumbing in these trucks is a PITA to make it all fit. But now your dealing with ring gap and other things.
So ......... best path to 400Hp with ability to go to 500hp later ??
Transmission
Really want to go with smallest transmission for clearance that can support. Was thinking a built up 4L60E ....... yay/nay ?
This will be my 1st post - Im looking to do an LS variant swap into a 57 Chevy panel truck. With so many options and not having done this before - I have a bunch of simple questions.
Engine
Obviously a lot of variants. I come from a 700HP+ diesel background. I rode in my mates 2016 365hp F150 ecoboost - wasnt for me ...... maybe traction control even though we had in sport mode and traction off.
So thinking 400hp+
LS2/LS3 - I'm there ... but lots of $$. Say $3k-$6k.
5.3 truck - now closer to 300HP at $1k. But now need to add CAM, SPRINGS, ROCKERS and HEADS.
The heads in particular look really expensive to bridge that next 100HP ......
Looks like you need to add around $2500 here. So now your in the $3500 range for 400hp. Thats very close to a used LS2 ($3700)
So - loosely it seems like your better off to go with a true LS2 variant .... think it saves you on the oil pan issue too ......
Then theres the 6.0 which kind of bridges the gap. But still adds up the same.
Not sure what size turbo you would need to go FI later ..... just for extra 75-125+ HP. I know plumbing in these trucks is a PITA to make it all fit. But now your dealing with ring gap and other things.
So ......... best path to 400Hp with ability to go to 500hp later ??
Transmission
Really want to go with smallest transmission for clearance that can support. Was thinking a built up 4L60E ....... yay/nay ?
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 311
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From: South Carolina
Not liking Ecoboost just shows that you're not gay. I am fond of the females too which is why I had to switch brand allegiances when Furd start boosted v6's to replace their v8's with. I am not about no v6 in my Merican performance cars and full size trucks.
Many options to making 400+ whp. A used 6 liter truck motor with a little topend work would be an easy and fairly cheap way to get to 400+ whp. Hell just some boltons and a cam can get you there.
Many options to making 400+ whp. A used 6 liter truck motor with a little topend work would be an easy and fairly cheap way to get to 400+ whp. Hell just some boltons and a cam can get you there.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 254
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Not liking Ecoboost just shows that you're not gay. I am fond of the females too which is why I had to switch brand allegiances when Furd start boosted v6's to replace their v8's with. I am not about no v6 in my Merican performance cars and full size trucks.
Many options to making 400+ whp. A used 6 liter truck motor with a little topend work would be an easy and fairly cheap way to get to 400+ whp. Hell just some boltons and a cam can get you there.
Many options to making 400+ whp. A used 6 liter truck motor with a little topend work would be an easy and fairly cheap way to get to 400+ whp. Hell just some boltons and a cam can get you there.
The 6.0 However (LQ4,L76,LQ9) typically go for $2500 in half decent condition. Still only rated at 350 ...... so with cam and springs ......$3k and *maybe* you get 400. Else your back into the head game ........
Just seems that a LS2 at say $3700 is going to be hard to beat, as much as I like the idea of a 5.3 and build up.
Lol.
The 6.0 However (LQ4,L76,LQ9) typically go for $2500 in half decent condition. Still only rated at 350 ...... so with cam and springs ......$3k and *maybe* you get 400. Else your back into the head game ........
Just seems that a LS2 at say $3700 is going to be hard to beat, as much as I like the idea of a 5.3 and build up.
The 6.0 However (LQ4,L76,LQ9) typically go for $2500 in half decent condition. Still only rated at 350 ...... so with cam and springs ......$3k and *maybe* you get 400. Else your back into the head game ........
Just seems that a LS2 at say $3700 is going to be hard to beat, as much as I like the idea of a 5.3 and build up.
Also just to make sure you understand when most people here talk about HP it's RWHP...so that "365" Furd was really closer to 295 rwhp. A 400rwhp LSX will blow most people away.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Sep 2016
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Understood.
But same goes for the LSX right.
eg 6.0 LQ9 is rated at 345hp. So rear RWHP probably like 300.
True LSX is out of price range.
Any recommendations on places for porting ........ I did think of getting a pair and trying to port intake and exhaust myself ...... but doing a full build ...... going to be long enough and dont need the hassle of going to far and into a water jacket or something,.
But same goes for the LSX right.
eg 6.0 LQ9 is rated at 345hp. So rear RWHP probably like 300.
True LSX is out of price range.
Any recommendations on places for porting ........ I did think of getting a pair and trying to port intake and exhaust myself ...... but doing a full build ...... going to be long enough and dont need the hassle of going to far and into a water jacket or something,.
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Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Sep 2016
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Ls3 for 5k...maybe 6k.
Just depending on miles and condition
I was thinking ls3 to be done.
But to be honest don't think it's a smart idea sinking that much money into engine and trans on my 1st swap
So buy and ls2.
Or build up.
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Teching In
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 38
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I would say to find a 6.0l lq4 which should be very reasonable and then put a good set of heads with springs, budget intake like ls6, and cam and depending on drivetrain you should easily be in the 450 rwhp mark. Plus the iron block is a good option if you go FI later. Lq4 are found in lots of applications and pretty inexpensive so it should fit into your budget easily with money left over for parts.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 254
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ok - but lets walk this through.
LQ4
http://www.ebay.com/itm/03-06-Chevy-Silverado-GMC-Sierra-Complete-Drop-Out-6-0L-Engine-LQ4-300-HP-LS-LSx/291873111007?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D85fcfc824de34697bd462b31aa87b55e%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D381715909799
$1700
Heads
cheap heads
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-GEN-III-5...NXo3rT&vxp=mtr
$650
Cam
https://www.texas-speed.com/p-1154-t...-camshaft.aspx
$390
Springs
Whatever CAM manufacturer recommends -beehive
Approx $200
LS6 Intake
Couldnt find ls6 - but heres a LS1 - should be similar price.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ls1-Intake-l...lX3dvd&vxp=mtr
$225
$1700 + $650 + $390 + $200 +$225
So $3165 with average heads - probably bringing engine from 300 to around the 400hp mark ?
VErsus
http://www.ebay.com/itm/07-08-09-TRA...tWO5~H&vxp=mtr
Same price - also near 400 hp.
What am I missing here
LQ4
http://www.ebay.com/itm/03-06-Chevy-Silverado-GMC-Sierra-Complete-Drop-Out-6-0L-Engine-LQ4-300-HP-LS-LSx/291873111007?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D85fcfc824de34697bd462b31aa87b55e%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D381715909799
$1700
Heads
cheap heads
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-GEN-III-5...NXo3rT&vxp=mtr
$650
Cam
https://www.texas-speed.com/p-1154-t...-camshaft.aspx
$390
Springs
Whatever CAM manufacturer recommends -beehive
Approx $200
LS6 Intake
Couldnt find ls6 - but heres a LS1 - should be similar price.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ls1-Intake-l...lX3dvd&vxp=mtr
$225
$1700 + $650 + $390 + $200 +$225
So $3165 with average heads - probably bringing engine from 300 to around the 400hp mark ?
VErsus
http://www.ebay.com/itm/07-08-09-TRA...tWO5~H&vxp=mtr
Same price - also near 400 hp.
What am I missing here
Restricted User
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 7,192
Likes: 109
From: Ohio
What you're missing is the fact that a 6.0 with long tubes and a good tune is usually ~380-390 HP on an engine dyno.
That's also entirely too much money for those heads. That is in the price range of stock LS3 heads.
Stock 6.0, with LS3 heads/intake ($1000), that 233/239 cam, long tubes, and a good tune is probably in the 500-520 flywheel HP range. With the 243 or 799 heads like you posted, probably around 480-490 HP depending on intake manifold.
What you're missing is the fact that you're talking about a 345 HP engine, which picks up 100 HP between the cam/heads/tune you posted, easily.
If you can weld, turbo is a much better bang for the buck, but without welding skills falls outside of the range of most people's skill set to do on a budget. For example, I have 4.8 sitting around that's stock other than a small cam. With a single turbo setup, it should make ~525 wheel HP, so around 625 HP at the flywheel. I have it for sale locally for $4000, and I'm still making a decent profit on it.
Also, I have a lot of diesel friends. A typical 400whp LSX car that weighs less than 3500 lbs will embarrass a 7000 lb 700whp diesel. There is a huge 1100 HP duramax local to me that looks pretty small in the rear-view of my Nova. I don't know the final weight of the truck you're swapping, but its something to consider.
That's also entirely too much money for those heads. That is in the price range of stock LS3 heads.
Stock 6.0, with LS3 heads/intake ($1000), that 233/239 cam, long tubes, and a good tune is probably in the 500-520 flywheel HP range. With the 243 or 799 heads like you posted, probably around 480-490 HP depending on intake manifold.
What you're missing is the fact that you're talking about a 345 HP engine, which picks up 100 HP between the cam/heads/tune you posted, easily.
If you can weld, turbo is a much better bang for the buck, but without welding skills falls outside of the range of most people's skill set to do on a budget. For example, I have 4.8 sitting around that's stock other than a small cam. With a single turbo setup, it should make ~525 wheel HP, so around 625 HP at the flywheel. I have it for sale locally for $4000, and I'm still making a decent profit on it.
Also, I have a lot of diesel friends. A typical 400whp LSX car that weighs less than 3500 lbs will embarrass a 7000 lb 700whp diesel. There is a huge 1100 HP duramax local to me that looks pretty small in the rear-view of my Nova. I don't know the final weight of the truck you're swapping, but its something to consider.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Sep 2016
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I wouldn't have thought it would pick up 100HP.
I guess I'll have to look through some more dyno sheet setups on a 6.0 ..... and probably a slightly milder cam also ......
Just nervous on dropping the $3500 on a motor to find out the power is average. I know what your saying about a light weight vehicle at 400RHP versus a truck at 700RHP ...... I just like that feeling of being pinned in my seat on acceleration ...... and being able to go around most factory cars without a problem. Never had a modified gasser ..... so not much reference here at what 400HP on a lighter vehicle will be like.
Its not like I can just go drive a 400HP 50s truck to get a feel of where I'll be ----- so appreciate the feedback
Which heads would you be looking at ??
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 254
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W
If you can weld, turbo is a much better bang for the buck, but without welding skills falls outside of the range of most people's skill set to do on a budget. For example, I have 4.8 sitting around that's stock other than a small cam. With a single turbo setup, it should make ~525 wheel HP, so around 625 HP at the flywheel.
If you can weld, turbo is a much better bang for the buck, but without welding skills falls outside of the range of most people's skill set to do on a budget. For example, I have 4.8 sitting around that's stock other than a small cam. With a single turbo setup, it should make ~525 wheel HP, so around 625 HP at the flywheel.
Definately see FI in my future .......... just wont be until after the build ......
We will call that round #2.
Restricted User
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 7,192
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From: Ohio
A 6.0 has that special ability to run LS3 heads. They flow 320 CFM, which is more than a lot of aftermarket big block heads. If you're shooting for more than 500 flywheel on a budget, they are without a doubt the way to go.
Here is a dyno test that Hot Rod did.
6.0 with LS3 heads/intake. Using Comp 227/235 on a 113 LSA (obviously smaller than the 233/239), it made 528 HP. Ended up making 550 HP with a big 950 CFM carb and aftermarket intake.
Personally, I would decide between an N/A build and FI build early on. Cam selection will be very different.
Here is a dyno test that Hot Rod did.
6.0 with LS3 heads/intake. Using Comp 227/235 on a 113 LSA (obviously smaller than the 233/239), it made 528 HP. Ended up making 550 HP with a big 950 CFM carb and aftermarket intake.
Personally, I would decide between an N/A build and FI build early on. Cam selection will be very different.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 254
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A 6.0 has that special ability to run LS3 heads. They flow 320 CFM, which is more than a lot of aftermarket big block heads. If you're shooting for more than 500 flywheel on a budget, they are without a doubt the way to go.
Here is a dyno test that Hot Rod did.
6.0 with LS3 heads/intake. Using Comp 227/235 on a 113 LSA (obviously smaller than the 233/239), it made 528 HP. Ended up making 550 HP with a big 950 CFM carb and aftermarket intake.
Personally, I would decide between an N/A build and FI build early on. Cam selection will be very different.
Here is a dyno test that Hot Rod did.
6.0 with LS3 heads/intake. Using Comp 227/235 on a 113 LSA (obviously smaller than the 233/239), it made 528 HP. Ended up making 550 HP with a big 950 CFM carb and aftermarket intake.
Personally, I would decide between an N/A build and FI build early on. Cam selection will be very different.
Yes - I would like to go FI ...... but that's a whole another level that I will probably do once I kill this engine.
Mainly as the time it will take to fabricate and plan out along with the engine internals regarding ring gap and cam and studs ... so on.
Looks like a 6.0 and LS3 heads and cam then
Any other heads suitable if Ls3 is short supply - most CNC ported heads are running $1k each.Doest he LS3 head need to be milled at all ..... as obviously that was from a 6.2 engine .... versus 6.0 .....
I'll spend some time on the dyno sheets
Great info guys.
Restricted User
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 7,192
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From: Ohio
LS3 and L92 heads are the same. Neither are in short supply. Can probably score them for $650 or so. LS3 intake is around $350 complete.
I forgot to post the link to the article:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-...gine-cam-test/
LS3 heads and stock 6.0 317 heads have roughly the same size combustion chamber.
I forgot to post the link to the article:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-...gine-cam-test/
LS3 heads and stock 6.0 317 heads have roughly the same size combustion chamber.
Teching In
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 38
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Also the l92 heads shouldn't need any work unless you want to touch up the exhaust side. The intake side flows plenty so opening them up has only hurt people with lower port velocity from my research. A set of high end cathedral heads will normally make better torque down low because they typically have higher port velocity. I'm talking something in the 230 range for a cathedral head, AFR has some great results with these heads but they are pricey. If you go ls3 heads you will need supporting hardware, offset rockers and ls3 style intake mainly.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Sep 2016
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Thanks. Ill probably leave the exhuast porting alone for now ......going to have so much to do on 1st swap just want to build as bets from OEM(ish) parts and then grow from there.
FRONT => Dakota IFS swap
REAR => Ford 9" 4.10 gears ?
BLOCK => LQ4/LQ9 6.0 truck
TRANS => 4l80e
HEADS => LS3 or L92
CAM => 227/235 or close DD/Street CAM
Intake => LS3
Where are people at on
Coils and ignition - OEM ?
Injectors - OEM ?
Tuning (- ??
Missing anything ?
FRONT => Dakota IFS swap
REAR => Ford 9" 4.10 gears ?
BLOCK => LQ4/LQ9 6.0 truck
TRANS => 4l80e
HEADS => LS3 or L92
CAM => 227/235 or close DD/Street CAM
Intake => LS3
Where are people at on
Coils and ignition - OEM ?
Injectors - OEM ?
Tuning (- ??
Missing anything ?
Teching In
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Coils and ignition should be fine oem at that level, some people say the truck coils are the best oem option. Definelty need tuning if your swapping out the stock cam. Injectors may be fine but tuner will be able to tell you if your maxing them out. I would think a 36 lb injector would be enough. As far as cam size get in contact with a couple vendors and give them your build expectations and vehicle purpose/usage and they will get you sorted out. Your intake might be choking your engine and limiting your power with that setup.