View Poll Results: Which cam do you think is the best match for my goals?
Advanced induction: 234/240-113 .626"
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Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll
Final cam decision - vendor recommendations included - input needed
10-20-2016, 12:13 PM
#61
Yea I know the tune is going to be the most important. I had a futral f11 228/230 back in the day on my 2000 SS with stage 2 TEA 5.3 heads and it surged in low rpms and power was low for what it was. I think I ended up with around 380 to the wheels and it just felt like it bogged top end down the track.. not too long after I blew a hole in the piston. I really think it had to do with a history of bad tunes from hardcore racing that has since closed. The owner was crooked as hell, ronnie duke lol.. look him up, I think the FBI finally got him. He did have the world record fastest convertible WS6 at the time so I thought it was legit until I realized he didn't have competent tuners and was doing shady business.. now with all of the research I've done I know that cam should have drove perfectly with no surging at 1 degree of overlap. I have a few competent tuners in the area that may be able to help me..
You are definitely right about everyone having a tolerance.. I have a friend that recently ran the BTR 4 and all I remember him saying is.. "this thing only has top end power, it doesn't drive very well, and it makes me really miss my old futral f13 cam because it was fun to drive.. " after he said that I went ahead and sold my SNS 3 because it made me really start rethinking it and I didnt want the same regret he had... even trapping 120mph with that cam he still would rather have better driveability and fun factor of the smaller cam.. that says a lot since he's been through quite a few cams. I'm glad you all pursuaded me with going smaller and looking at the fine details of the build..
Thanks again!
You are definitely right about everyone having a tolerance.. I have a friend that recently ran the BTR 4 and all I remember him saying is.. "this thing only has top end power, it doesn't drive very well, and it makes me really miss my old futral f13 cam because it was fun to drive.. " after he said that I went ahead and sold my SNS 3 because it made me really start rethinking it and I didnt want the same regret he had... even trapping 120mph with that cam he still would rather have better driveability and fun factor of the smaller cam.. that says a lot since he's been through quite a few cams. I'm glad you all pursuaded me with going smaller and looking at the fine details of the build..
Thanks again!
11-07-2016, 05:01 PM
#63
Hey guys, I'm back at it again..
I am getting close to piecing together the valvetrain for my build and planning to order soon.. below are specs of my cam, heads, and components I plan on running.. please share opinions or thoughts on anything I have missed or should look into a better/more reliable option.. please keep in mind I consider this a budget build but still trying to get better quality items to ensure its a reliable build.
Martin Smallwood -230/236 .620/.603 112+2 Mill, Cam motion core
AI 226 cc w/64cc chambers. BTR .660 springs with titanium retainers.
-Racetronix fuel pump & hotwire kit
-Fuel injectors 42 lb 028015581 GTP injectors
-Straub Trunnion upgrade w/ stock rockers
-Ls6 ported Oil pump
-Head gasket kit w/Cometic .040 MLS and ARP Head bolts
-Trick Flow® Timing Chain Adapter Brackets for GM LS TFS-30675600
-Timing chain damper
-Morel lifters w/ls2 trays and bolts
-Cam gasket kit
-NGK TR6 plugs
-Valley cover gasket
-Knock sensor harness
-2 knock sensors
-Oil pressure sensor
-Camshaft retainer plate w/ tapered bolts
-Chrome moly push rods, need to measure.
Having trouble deciding on a timing chain.. it's between these 3 options..
-JP ls1 single row billet timing chain $90
-LS2 chain only $45
-Cloyes hex adjust true roller $118
Any thoughts or input on any of this would be greatly appreciated before I move forward. As mentioned before the motor has almost 130k now so trying to be proactive on gaskets and such. Can't wait to get this build going.. I'm thinking I may be able to afford a fast 92 set up also to hopefully get me to my 450 rwhp goal.. we shall see..
Thanks again for all the input!
I am getting close to piecing together the valvetrain for my build and planning to order soon.. below are specs of my cam, heads, and components I plan on running.. please share opinions or thoughts on anything I have missed or should look into a better/more reliable option.. please keep in mind I consider this a budget build but still trying to get better quality items to ensure its a reliable build.
Martin Smallwood -230/236 .620/.603 112+2 Mill, Cam motion core
AI 226 cc w/64cc chambers. BTR .660 springs with titanium retainers.
-Racetronix fuel pump & hotwire kit
-Fuel injectors 42 lb 028015581 GTP injectors
-Straub Trunnion upgrade w/ stock rockers
-Ls6 ported Oil pump
-Head gasket kit w/Cometic .040 MLS and ARP Head bolts
-Trick Flow® Timing Chain Adapter Brackets for GM LS TFS-30675600
-Timing chain damper
-Morel lifters w/ls2 trays and bolts
-Cam gasket kit
-NGK TR6 plugs
-Valley cover gasket
-Knock sensor harness
-2 knock sensors
-Oil pressure sensor
-Camshaft retainer plate w/ tapered bolts
-Chrome moly push rods, need to measure.
Having trouble deciding on a timing chain.. it's between these 3 options..
-JP ls1 single row billet timing chain $90
-LS2 chain only $45
-Cloyes hex adjust true roller $118
Any thoughts or input on any of this would be greatly appreciated before I move forward. As mentioned before the motor has almost 130k now so trying to be proactive on gaskets and such. Can't wait to get this build going.. I'm thinking I may be able to afford a fast 92 set up also to hopefully get me to my 450 rwhp goal.. we shall see..
Thanks again for all the input!
11-07-2016, 07:19 PM
#65
Thanks for the info! I started questioning it during searches but I know a lot of people run just the ls2 chain with no issues.. I am thinking the damper set up will be a good upgrade for cheap.. haven't found a ton of info on them but it sounds like they should be easy to install.. I was going to use stock GM head bolts also but figured I won't have to degree with the ARP bolts and they are reusable if my bottom end ever let's loose..
11-08-2016, 07:15 AM
#67
I know the JP piece is really nice. I ran a ls2 setup with offset bushings in the cam gear to degree the cam. Just make sure which ever setup you go with allows adjustment to degree the cam in properly. There is no point to a custom cam if you do not degree it to the intake centerline it was speced to.
11-08-2016, 12:12 PM
#68
This is good info to know, so based on the cam spec I have I can't just line it up Dot to Dot the same way as stock? Being I have never had to do it before I should start looking for a how to on properly setting up the cam and timing chain, I would hate to get it all together and not have it run well..
So if I wanted to advance 1-2 degrees or retard 1-2 degrees (for example) I would need to line it up initially dot to dot like stock and then degree it advanced or retard based on my cam spec? Sorry for my ignorance on this, maybe it will make more sense if I do a little more reading on it.. Most how-to's I have found so far doesn't mention doing that unfortunately.
So if I wanted to advance 1-2 degrees or retard 1-2 degrees (for example) I would need to line it up initially dot to dot like stock and then degree it advanced or retard based on my cam spec? Sorry for my ignorance on this, maybe it will make more sense if I do a little more reading on it.. Most how-to's I have found so far doesn't mention doing that unfortunately.
11-10-2016, 09:11 AM
#69
No, the advance is ground into the cam. If you advance it more with the timing set, you are adding additional advance. Install it dot-to-dot and if you have a degree wheel, you can degree it and check that it's all within spec. If not, the dot-to-dot is fine as the cams nowadays are not more than a degree off.
11-10-2016, 09:15 AM
#70
That's what I keep finding in my recent searches. My cam will be coming from Cam motion and I know he uses a cam doctor to check all of his cams. I will have to find more info on the degree wheel and how to check it properly. Thanks for the info!
11-10-2016, 09:28 AM
#73
Ok cool I will look into it for my build. I will have a lot to learn along the way considering its my first build. I had a head and cam set up in the past on a 00 SS but a friend took it into a dealership under lifter warranty and he threw all of my parts on for free since it was already torn apart lol.. Won't be that lucky this time around..
I see you run the .040 gaskets.. did you have to prep more than normal to ensure it was clean enough to run those gaskets? I've heard with it being a thin gasket that you want it to pretty much be perfect or there is a greater chance for leaks.. any recommendations would be great.
I'm sure I'll start a build thread when the time comes to get more pointers along the way
I see you run the .040 gaskets.. did you have to prep more than normal to ensure it was clean enough to run those gaskets? I've heard with it being a thin gasket that you want it to pretty much be perfect or there is a greater chance for leaks.. any recommendations would be great.
I'm sure I'll start a build thread when the time comes to get more pointers along the way
11-10-2016, 09:36 AM
#75
I run cometic .045's and did not use any copper spray or anything...just made sure the surface was clean and wiped it down good with Break Kleen. That being said mine only had 17k miles when I took it apart, so the stock head gaskets came off really easy and left very little residual behind.
11-10-2016, 03:12 PM
#76
I have also heard that the copper spray maybe shouldn't be used in some cases? I keep seeing back and forth comments on whether to use it or just to make sure the block is in perfect shape.. nothing would be worse than having a leak when its finished and wasting $150 gaskets lol..
11-10-2016, 04:24 PM
#77
I used copper spray on mine with the Cometics. It's been fine.
I wouldn't do it with a new block and newly surfaced heads. The machined surfaces will allow for a "dry" fit without issue. But when your block is old and has potentially leftover gasket material, the copper spray just ensures a good seal.
The Cometics do have a sealant on them, but like I said, I didn't have any issues when I installed mine.
I wouldn't do it with a new block and newly surfaced heads. The machined surfaces will allow for a "dry" fit without issue. But when your block is old and has potentially leftover gasket material, the copper spray just ensures a good seal.
The Cometics do have a sealant on them, but like I said, I didn't have any issues when I installed mine.
11-13-2016, 12:08 PM
#80
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Split Overlap Measurement MY CALL, do not trust cam timing as installed, just a "quick" measurement method.
Sure this is "old school" BUT if works, SAVING me many times from incorrect timing sprocket marks. (dot-dot)
We ALL know LS engines, most 8-V's, have the pistons 1 & 6 "up" at the same time.
Thus 1 or 6 is "firing" AND 1 or 6 is "overlap".
This allows for lifter height measurement at Overlap, the "split overlap" method.
Sure many cams have larger EX lobes though the height difference is SMALL compared to "dot/dot" problems.
Lance
Sure this is "old school" BUT if works, SAVING me many times from incorrect timing sprocket marks. (dot-dot)
We ALL know LS engines, most 8-V's, have the pistons 1 & 6 "up" at the same time.
Thus 1 or 6 is "firing" AND 1 or 6 is "overlap".
This allows for lifter height measurement at Overlap, the "split overlap" method.
Sure many cams have larger EX lobes though the height difference is SMALL compared to "dot/dot" problems.
Lance