6.0 Stroker, first spin, no oil pressure and a noise
11-07-2016, 08:28 PM
#21
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OK. So, since I don't have time to work on it, I will look into making or getting a primer. I had read so many different things about "pre-prime" vs "prime with the pump" I wasn't sure what I should do as this was my first LS build. I was out of money and wanted to get the car to the tuner on my next off day so I opted for the "spin" method.
I've been looking tonight and have found several good/inexpensive ideas that should work to make a primer before attempting to crank the motor. The long block has been assembled since mid-April so I should have prelubed anyway. Hopefully it won't bite me...
PDX--LOL at the neighbor
1FastBrick--I filled the converter prior to install and have poured about 1 1/2 gallons into the trans so far. I hope you're right on the windage tray. I thought I had it spaced out far enough from the crank but it was still close in order to keep decent clearance for the pick up. I did have my wife spin it over while I was under the car earlier and I could "feel" the squeal with my hand laying on the pan. If it is the tray, I think I will pick up a Mast instead of modifying the stock one more, just have to see what happens.
RixTrix--There is a new barbell in the motor. That's what got me, I thought I had done everything I could do to make this work right the first time (except for the pre-lube--tried to cheat on that one) and I obviously missed something so now a do-over is coming. I hate doing something once and then having to re-do because of something I missed...
I still plan to remove the passengers' side valve cover just for giggles and grins and then I will start lowering the K to gain room for pan removal when I get time (and get something to pre lube the motor with!!).
I've been looking tonight and have found several good/inexpensive ideas that should work to make a primer before attempting to crank the motor. The long block has been assembled since mid-April so I should have prelubed anyway. Hopefully it won't bite me...
PDX--LOL at the neighbor
1FastBrick--I filled the converter prior to install and have poured about 1 1/2 gallons into the trans so far. I hope you're right on the windage tray. I thought I had it spaced out far enough from the crank but it was still close in order to keep decent clearance for the pick up. I did have my wife spin it over while I was under the car earlier and I could "feel" the squeal with my hand laying on the pan. If it is the tray, I think I will pick up a Mast instead of modifying the stock one more, just have to see what happens.
RixTrix--There is a new barbell in the motor. That's what got me, I thought I had done everything I could do to make this work right the first time (except for the pre-lube--tried to cheat on that one) and I obviously missed something so now a do-over is coming. I hate doing something once and then having to re-do because of something I missed...
I still plan to remove the passengers' side valve cover just for giggles and grins and then I will start lowering the K to gain room for pan removal when I get time (and get something to pre lube the motor with!!).
11-11-2016, 11:04 PM
#23
I didn't prelube my motor. I drained all the oil out when I removed it. I used the starter to turn it over and prime it. Do it in 10 sec intervals. Don't wear out your starter. Should take 3-5 times with 10 sec primes to register pressure. Should work fine unless you have another issue.
But that sounds like something is rubbing... with the speed, it sounds like a rod.
But that sounds like something is rubbing... with the speed, it sounds like a rod.
11-12-2016, 12:36 AM
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I didn't prelube my motor. I drained all the oil out when I removed it. I used the starter to turn it over and prime it. Do it in 10 sec intervals. Don't wear out your starter. Should take 3-5 times with 10 sec primes to register pressure. Should work fine unless you have another issue.
But that sounds like something is rubbing... with the speed, it sounds like a rod.
But that sounds like something is rubbing... with the speed, it sounds like a rod.
Removed the oil pressure switch, poured maybe 12oz down it.
Filled the filter
Removed the Allen key on the side of the block, poured another 6-8oz in there.
melling 10295
64psi cold idle at 600rpm, instantly.
11-18-2016, 06:11 PM
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Finally had a day off and got to work on it. When I dropped the pan I didn't see any issues. That had me concerned. Next, I dropped the windage tray and looked at it. Didn't see anything at first but started looking closer and there were scrape marks in about 6 different spots. I had fit everything up on the stand, added washers to the windage tray and then put the pan on and rolled the motor with no interference before installing it in the car so I was a little surprised. I cleaned/clearanced the rubbed areas and then added 1 more washer to each stud for the windage tray. This should take care of the rubbing. I came inside to take a little break and to get my oil pick up tube brace that was delivered today (perfect timing!). Gonna go back out in a little while and start buttoning her back up.
Over the last couple of weeks, I also picked up an electric pump and some fittings to pre lube the motor. I think it would be fine to just spin prime it but the rubbing scared me bad enough that I don't want anymore surprises, lol.
I do have a video of the windage tray that I will post later. I couldn't get the pics to turn out very well.
Over the last couple of weeks, I also picked up an electric pump and some fittings to pre lube the motor. I think it would be fine to just spin prime it but the rubbing scared me bad enough that I don't want anymore surprises, lol.
I do have a video of the windage tray that I will post later. I couldn't get the pics to turn out very well.
11-19-2016, 05:10 PM
#27
Did you shim the oilpump when you installed it?
11-19-2016, 10:28 PM
#29
Finally had a day off and got to work on it. When I dropped the pan I didn't see any issues. That had me concerned. Next, I dropped the windage tray and looked at it. Didn't see anything at first but started looking closer and there were scrape marks in about 6 different spots. I had fit everything up on the stand, added washers to the windage tray and then put the pan on and rolled the motor with no interference before installing it in the car so I was a little surprised. I cleaned/clearanced the rubbed areas and then added 1 more washer to each stud for the windage tray. This should take care of the rubbing. I came inside to take a little break and to get my oil pick up tube brace that was delivered today (perfect timing!). Gonna go back out in a little while and start buttoning her back up.
Over the last couple of weeks, I also picked up an electric pump and some fittings to pre lube the motor. I think it would be fine to just spin prime it but the rubbing scared me bad enough that I don't want anymore surprises, lol.
I do have a video of the windage tray that I will post later. I couldn't get the pics to turn out very well.
Over the last couple of weeks, I also picked up an electric pump and some fittings to pre lube the motor. I think it would be fine to just spin prime it but the rubbing scared me bad enough that I don't want anymore surprises, lol.
I do have a video of the windage tray that I will post later. I couldn't get the pics to turn out very well.
Glad you got it figured out! Hopefully that's all it was.
01-29-2017, 03:20 PM
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Update--With the Holidays, work, etc., finally got it buttoned back up. Primed it with an electric pump, rotated the motor by hand to get everything lubed. Spun it over...EXACT same sound. Guess I'll be pulling this one back out to diagnose. Life sucks sometimes...
01-30-2017, 06:07 PM
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I pulled the valve covers, as I had modified those as well for the LS3 heads, and they looked good. There was oil up there, too, so I feel good that the prelube performed worked fine.
Next I borrowed a stethoscope from my dad to help narrow down where the sound was coming from. From the top side, the noise was very muffled and distant but was slightly louder close to the firewall. Under the car the noise was the worst close to the starter. Based on this, I took the starter loose so I could remove the plastic dust cover to get a look up in there. Once I had this cover removed I could feel particles lying on the bottom of the bellhousing. They appear to be aluminum.
I had the wife rotate the motor while I was under the car(jackstands on all 4 corners, very sturdy) and the sound was definitely more exaggerated at the starter itself. Next step, I'm planning to pull the starter off so I can possibly see a little better(test/inspect it while off) and to check the flexplate/converter bolts. If I don't see the issue from there then out comes the transmission. There's definitely something happening back there but it could still be something elsewhere also.
Just some added parts info for future reference--Hughes Flexplate #HP4004X, ARP Flexplate bolts #244-2901, Yank converter with ARP converter bolts #203-7304
Next I borrowed a stethoscope from my dad to help narrow down where the sound was coming from. From the top side, the noise was very muffled and distant but was slightly louder close to the firewall. Under the car the noise was the worst close to the starter. Based on this, I took the starter loose so I could remove the plastic dust cover to get a look up in there. Once I had this cover removed I could feel particles lying on the bottom of the bellhousing. They appear to be aluminum.
I had the wife rotate the motor while I was under the car(jackstands on all 4 corners, very sturdy) and the sound was definitely more exaggerated at the starter itself. Next step, I'm planning to pull the starter off so I can possibly see a little better(test/inspect it while off) and to check the flexplate/converter bolts. If I don't see the issue from there then out comes the transmission. There's definitely something happening back there but it could still be something elsewhere also.
Just some added parts info for future reference--Hughes Flexplate #HP4004X, ARP Flexplate bolts #244-2901, Yank converter with ARP converter bolts #203-7304
02-03-2017, 01:01 PM
#36
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I pulled the starter and the engagement of the flywheel to bendix (shiny spots) looked suspect. Prior, when the motor was rotating, it appeared that the flywheel was slightly out of round but I figured that could be an optical illusion. Just out of curiosity, before I dropped the transmission, I decided to try to shim the starter to see if that made any difference. I installed a 1/16" shim, that had to be modified as the bolt spacing was too wide, and spun the motor. It sounds like it should now, no squealing/rubbing/screeching sound as previous and the motor seems to be turning over slightly faster too.
So, at this point, I have to presume that it has been an issue with the flexplate making the noise from the beginning. I am, however, glad that I pulled the pan and saw the light rubbing on the windage tray and resolved that prior to starting the engine.
I am not going to call it "done" just yet. I still want to get a better look at the flexplate while it is rotating to determine if it is out of round or slightly off center. Right now I don't have any way to rotate the motor while I am under there to look. I will try that this afternoon when everyone gets home from work and school.
My learning from this has been check, double check and then go back and check AT LEAST one more time. Also, with the Hughes flexplate (most likely ANY stamped flexplate) I would suggest checking diameter vs stock and also measuring from the center crank opening to the outside of the ring before installation to determine if there might be any potential for problems. I'm wishing now that I would have purchased a billet flexplate to begin with but finances, at the time, dictated otherwise.
So, at this point, I have to presume that it has been an issue with the flexplate making the noise from the beginning. I am, however, glad that I pulled the pan and saw the light rubbing on the windage tray and resolved that prior to starting the engine.
I am not going to call it "done" just yet. I still want to get a better look at the flexplate while it is rotating to determine if it is out of round or slightly off center. Right now I don't have any way to rotate the motor while I am under there to look. I will try that this afternoon when everyone gets home from work and school.
My learning from this has been check, double check and then go back and check AT LEAST one more time. Also, with the Hughes flexplate (most likely ANY stamped flexplate) I would suggest checking diameter vs stock and also measuring from the center crank opening to the outside of the ring before installation to determine if there might be any potential for problems. I'm wishing now that I would have purchased a billet flexplate to begin with but finances, at the time, dictated otherwise.
02-04-2017, 09:32 AM
#38
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It's a 2002 2500hd starter. I installed it about a year and a half ago when the original starter busted my LS1 block. Bought it and a bridge to use on the original engine.
02-04-2017, 10:45 AM
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Very glad it seems like it was external. Let cooler heads prevail.
New motors are nerve wracking. I had one die on me during its first run in and come to a halt with a loud screech. I called the manufacturer etc, thinking I was going to have to pull the motor. A vacuum fitting picked right then to break was all it was. Let in a ton of air, went lean, died. Shrieking noise made it sound way worse than it was.
New motors are nerve wracking. I had one die on me during its first run in and come to a halt with a loud screech. I called the manufacturer etc, thinking I was going to have to pull the motor. A vacuum fitting picked right then to break was all it was. Let in a ton of air, went lean, died. Shrieking noise made it sound way worse than it was.
02-05-2017, 10:14 AM
#40
Very glad it seems like it was external. Let cooler heads prevail.
New motors are nerve wracking. I had one die on me during its first run in and come to a halt with a loud screech. I called the manufacturer etc, thinking I was going to have to pull the motor. A vacuum fitting picked right then to break was all it was. Let in a ton of air, went lean, died. Shrieking noise made it sound way worse than it was.
New motors are nerve wracking. I had one die on me during its first run in and come to a halt with a loud screech. I called the manufacturer etc, thinking I was going to have to pull the motor. A vacuum fitting picked right then to break was all it was. Let in a ton of air, went lean, died. Shrieking noise made it sound way worse than it was.