The little engine that could
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Joined: May 2016
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From: St. Louis
The little engine that could I just picked up a gently used comp xfi 265hr high lift cam for my low mile LR4 swap. I already put Blue Springs in it so I just need to pop the cam in there. this cam is listed at 212/218 .558/.563 115+0 on the card.
I realize that a 115 lsa is not ideal for a n/a Max power 4.8 but I wanted the negative overlap for what I'm trying to do. This is a stock 2002 LR4 with an LS6 intake and 2000+ f-body manifolds. This car needs to be completely driveable year round and needs to be able to live in heavy traffic in a 3500lb car with with a tight converter and 2.73 rear gears with the a/c blowing on max. at some point this car will get a small turbo with flipped truck manifolds but it will always be an all weather driver first and foremost!
this LR4 is in great shape with less than 20k on in so I'd be perfectly happy if I could put the cam in there with the stock timing set and call it good. I do see however that most cams recommend for the 4.8 have an earlier intake closing point than this cam but that is usually in heavy truck applications.
I figure at worst the cam could be retarded a few degrees from the 115icl it was ground on if I reused the stock timing set.
How much low end performance would It be worth to actually degree this cam in with my setup? or should i just use an aftermarket timing set in maybe the +4 position?
I realize that a 115 lsa is not ideal for a n/a Max power 4.8 but I wanted the negative overlap for what I'm trying to do. This is a stock 2002 LR4 with an LS6 intake and 2000+ f-body manifolds. This car needs to be completely driveable year round and needs to be able to live in heavy traffic in a 3500lb car with with a tight converter and 2.73 rear gears with the a/c blowing on max. at some point this car will get a small turbo with flipped truck manifolds but it will always be an all weather driver first and foremost!
this LR4 is in great shape with less than 20k on in so I'd be perfectly happy if I could put the cam in there with the stock timing set and call it good. I do see however that most cams recommend for the 4.8 have an earlier intake closing point than this cam but that is usually in heavy truck applications.
I figure at worst the cam could be retarded a few degrees from the 115icl it was ground on if I reused the stock timing set.
How much low end performance would It be worth to actually degree this cam in with my setup? or should i just use an aftermarket timing set in maybe the +4 position?
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From: Iowa
With small cubes, your best friend is going to be rpm. If it were me, I'd degree the cam just to see where it is actually going to end up. Comp hasn't always had the best quality control and the ICL might be off.
If it is exactly what the cam card says, it should close the intake valve at 64°. That's not too bad.
Throw a .036 head gasket on there and you should be able to get around 10:1 static and 8.4:1 dynamic. That dynamic compression should help the low end. Then revs and the little wider lsa will help with top end. All in all, I'd bet straight up in this application is gonna be best. Advancing it, like always, will give more bottom torque and retarding it will give more top end hp, but I'm not sure you want to sacrifice too much of either in this case.
Now, when going to turbo, this cam should work great!! Small cams tend to do well with boost in these engines. If you want to build more boost on the line, you might have to advance the think a little but not much.
If you have time, go read an article by super chevy titled "mini mouse"
It outlines a 4.8 with a 210/218 116lsa (prettt close to yours) that made something like 380 crank hp with just headers. Looks like your little engine that could, already has proven itself elsewhere.
If it is exactly what the cam card says, it should close the intake valve at 64°. That's not too bad.
Throw a .036 head gasket on there and you should be able to get around 10:1 static and 8.4:1 dynamic. That dynamic compression should help the low end. Then revs and the little wider lsa will help with top end. All in all, I'd bet straight up in this application is gonna be best. Advancing it, like always, will give more bottom torque and retarding it will give more top end hp, but I'm not sure you want to sacrifice too much of either in this case.
Now, when going to turbo, this cam should work great!! Small cams tend to do well with boost in these engines. If you want to build more boost on the line, you might have to advance the think a little but not much.
If you have time, go read an article by super chevy titled "mini mouse"
It outlines a 4.8 with a 210/218 116lsa (prettt close to yours) that made something like 380 crank hp with just headers. Looks like your little engine that could, already has proven itself elsewhere.
You likely won't be able to go more than .040 on the head gasket as the pistons typically sit out of the hole. I have 5.3L now that has a range of +.0035 to +.007 out of the hole.
I usually see a range of +.005 to +.008 out of the hole. I use +.006 out of the hole as an average when doing calculations as it's the closest on factory specs.
I usually see a range of +.005 to +.008 out of the hole. I use +.006 out of the hole as an average when doing calculations as it's the closest on factory specs.
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Joined: Dec 2012
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From: Iowa
You're probably right. If I remember, I think I used either a 4 or 4.100 bore gasket at .036 just by habit. Using a 3.900 gasket bore with .040 or .045 would yield similar results. I know cometic makes something in that ballpark...I think 3.900 bore .042 thick
Although this cam is a little on the smaller size for both duration and lift so he might be able to get away with thinner anyhow. As always, clay them just to be sure!
Although this cam is a little on the smaller size for both duration and lift so he might be able to get away with thinner anyhow. As always, clay them just to be sure!
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From: St. Louis
I appreciate all of your input so far!
do you guys really think adding compression would be necessary to keep the low speed driveabillity intact if I go with this cam? I understand that adding compression will help to compensate for the later intake closing that this cam uses buy building more cylinder pressure at lower speed but I feel like if I were to go to the trouble of pulling the heads right now I would want to do more in there than just replace the gaskets.
Quality tuning shouldn't be any issue for me either if this cam can really be tame enough to drive in a 9.5-1 4.8L when it's installed in there straight up with no advance.
hell I'm thinking it will probably be easier.
I would spend about the same amount of money on head gasket stuff as I would on an adjustable timing set to advance the cam a few degrees or I could just go get a trailblazer converter from o-Riley's to help the car take off at stoplights a little better if I absolutely have to but that would be as loose as I'm willing to go on the converter right now.
this engine is a $400 dollar junkyard jewel and the cam was free so I have no regrets. if the cam is to wrong for what Im trying to do I'd rather trade it or sell it and save for something I can just throw in there.
do you guys really think adding compression would be necessary to keep the low speed driveabillity intact if I go with this cam? I understand that adding compression will help to compensate for the later intake closing that this cam uses buy building more cylinder pressure at lower speed but I feel like if I were to go to the trouble of pulling the heads right now I would want to do more in there than just replace the gaskets.
Quality tuning shouldn't be any issue for me either if this cam can really be tame enough to drive in a 9.5-1 4.8L when it's installed in there straight up with no advance.
hell I'm thinking it will probably be easier.
I would spend about the same amount of money on head gasket stuff as I would on an adjustable timing set to advance the cam a few degrees or I could just go get a trailblazer converter from o-Riley's to help the car take off at stoplights a little better if I absolutely have to but that would be as loose as I'm willing to go on the converter right now.
this engine is a $400 dollar junkyard jewel and the cam was free so I have no regrets. if the cam is to wrong for what Im trying to do I'd rather trade it or sell it and save for something I can just throw in there.
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Joined: Dec 2012
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From: Iowa
NEEDED? no probably not. It would just help add a little pep.
The stock compression is 9.5 iirc and with that, this little cam should have 7.5:1 dynamic. That's as good as any hot street old school small block. If they can manage to move all steel cars with worse ignition and fuel tuning (for most shade tree guys) then i'm sure you can manage with better good tuning.
The 4.8 in stock trim was able to move around a big pickup and do just fine. You might lose a little bit of that low end power, buy you're also losing more than 1000lbs so I would imaging you'll get along just fine. And always remember, RPM is your best friend with a little engine like this!
The stock compression is 9.5 iirc and with that, this little cam should have 7.5:1 dynamic. That's as good as any hot street old school small block. If they can manage to move all steel cars with worse ignition and fuel tuning (for most shade tree guys) then i'm sure you can manage with better good tuning.
The 4.8 in stock trim was able to move around a big pickup and do just fine. You might lose a little bit of that low end power, buy you're also losing more than 1000lbs so I would imaging you'll get along just fine. And always remember, RPM is your best friend with a little engine like this!
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From: St. Louis
I can't be any worse than an 02-04 LS6 cam and if someone had given me one of those for free I would probably have already put it in there without thinking twice. I figure the extra overlap from the extended intake duration combined with basically the same exhaust event as the LS6 cam (same lift and 115 centerline) should help the mid-range more than it will hurt it, even with with stock manifolds still in place.
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From: Monroe,NY
I had a 212/218 113 .530 lift cam from Lunati. I have a 1992 pickup 5.3 5 speed with 3:42 gears. I couldn't even tell the lose at low end. That cam was great at all rpms. I know the 5.3 is a little bigger than 4.8 but you should be fine. I have a 222/226 115+3 .600 lift cam in there now with texas speed ported 5.3 heads. I still liked the 212/218 cam better with the ported heads.
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From: St. Louis
I had a 212/218 113 .530 lift cam from Lunati. I have a 1992 pickup 5.3 5 speed with 3:42 gears. I couldn't even tell the lose at low end. That cam was great at all rpms. I know the 5.3 is a little bigger than 4.8 but you should be fine. I have a 222/226 115+3 .600 lift cam in there now with texas speed ported 5.3 heads. I still liked the 212/218 cam better with the ported heads.
I'm running a cam with less duration but about the same amount of overlap as your 222/226 in my otherwise stock accept for the basic bolt-on LS1 Z28 and I couldn't be happier, it's an absolute torque pig. there is definitely a fine line of diminishing returns when it comes to cam duration for a street driven car IMO.
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From: St. Louis
I thought I would finally update my old thread. I finally got around to putting the 212/218 .558/.563 115+0 old (the grind is from like 04' I think) comp cam in my otherwise stock 02', 706 headed LR4 longblock swapped 4th gen Z28 (both the car and the 4.8 are from 02).
The car is also an A4 2.73:1 with the stock heavy steel drive shaft. The stock LS1 converter stalls at about 15-1600 behind the 4.8. I think the 4.8 truck converters were like 1800 or so.
The exhaust consists of the stock exhaust manifolds and flat y pipe with just a jegs cutout in front of a magnaflow 12267 weld in muffler and some rusty old 99/02 ws6/SS tailpipes.
the car runs really well for what it is I think. My wife drives it to work every day and we use 87 octane all the time. The tune is just the stock 02 timing table with the pe, ve's, and maf dialed in with a wide band. Idles really good at 650 in neutral and about 550 in gear. I'm shifting it 1-2 at 6600 regularly though it pulls hard all the way to 7200 where I have the limiter set.
I think a lot of you guys have given in to the hype out there that you need the newest biggest grinds and the stiffest valve springs they make just to have a little fun.
The valve train is no louder than stock and it seems to make as good a power down low as the 1721 cam that was in there before and yet it's way more responsive up top. 2ND gear on the highway feels just as good or better than any bolt on LS1 I've been around and launching the car is also idiot proof with the 2.73 although I plan to setup an extra ten bolt I have with a 4.10 for it soon.
The car is also an A4 2.73:1 with the stock heavy steel drive shaft. The stock LS1 converter stalls at about 15-1600 behind the 4.8. I think the 4.8 truck converters were like 1800 or so.
The exhaust consists of the stock exhaust manifolds and flat y pipe with just a jegs cutout in front of a magnaflow 12267 weld in muffler and some rusty old 99/02 ws6/SS tailpipes.
the car runs really well for what it is I think. My wife drives it to work every day and we use 87 octane all the time. The tune is just the stock 02 timing table with the pe, ve's, and maf dialed in with a wide band. Idles really good at 650 in neutral and about 550 in gear. I'm shifting it 1-2 at 6600 regularly though it pulls hard all the way to 7200 where I have the limiter set.
I think a lot of you guys have given in to the hype out there that you need the newest biggest grinds and the stiffest valve springs they make just to have a little fun.
The valve train is no louder than stock and it seems to make as good a power down low as the 1721 cam that was in there before and yet it's way more responsive up top. 2ND gear on the highway feels just as good or better than any bolt on LS1 I've been around and launching the car is also idiot proof with the 2.73 although I plan to setup an extra ten bolt I have with a 4.10 for it soon.
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212/218 cams have always been popular for good reason; it is just a good all-round cam! Pretty good low end, plus extended range up top. It seems everyone and his cousin makes one, or very close to it. They WORK!
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From: Monroe,NY
where did the 212/218 cam want to idle? I'm trying to get an idea of how rowdy this cam will be with in a daily setup. I'm hoping the 115 lsa will keep it somewhat friendly.
I'm running a cam with less duration but about the same amount of overlap as your 222/226 in my otherwise stock accept for the basic bolt-on LS1 Z28 and I couldn't be happier, it's an absolute torque pig. there is definitely a fine line of diminishing returns when it comes to cam duration for a street driven car IMO.
I'm running a cam with less duration but about the same amount of overlap as your 222/226 in my otherwise stock accept for the basic bolt-on LS1 Z28 and I couldn't be happier, it's an absolute torque pig. there is definitely a fine line of diminishing returns when it comes to cam duration for a street driven car IMO.
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From: St. Louis
I would say that in my 4.8 the 212/218 is about like whataburger spicy ketchup, just enough thump to know it's there but with perfect driveability, now in a 5.3 it would be less noticeable, and if you put one in a 5.7 or bigger and you would likely have to have a trained ear to hear it at all, especially with decent tuning.
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Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Monroe,NY
The 212/218 113+3 had some lope to it. Everyone could tell i had a cam. I also have LT headers no cats and true dual exhaust with flowmaster look a like mufflers. Don't no the brand since they were on there when i bought the truck and couldn't find any name on the mufflers. Surprisingly no drone and very loud at WOT.
Thread Starter
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Joined: May 2016
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From: St. Louis
I thought I would finally update my old thread. I finally got around to putting the 212/218 .558/.563 115+0 old (the grind is from like 04' I think) comp cam in my otherwise stock 02', 706 headed LR4 longblock swapped 4th gen Z28 (both the car and the 4.8 are from 02).
The car is also an A4 2.73:1 with the stock heavy steel drive shaft. The stock LS1 converter stalls at about 15-1600 behind the 4.8. I think the 4.8 truck converters were like 1800 or so.
The exhaust consists of the stock exhaust manifolds and flat y pipe with just a jegs cutout in front of a magnaflow 12267 weld in muffler and some rusty old 99/02 ws6/SS tailpipes.
the car runs really well for what it is I think. My wife drives it to work every day and we use 87 octane all the time. The tune is just the stock 02 timing table with the pe, ve's, and maf dialed in with a wide band. Idles really good at 650 in neutral and about 550 in gear. I'm shifting it 1-2 at 6600 regularly though it pulls hard all the way to 7200 where I have the limiter set.
I think a lot of you guys have given in to the hype out there that you need the newest biggest grinds and the stiffest valve springs they make just to have a little fun.
The valve train is no louder than stock and it seems to make as good a power down low as the 1721 cam that was in there before and yet it's way more responsive up top. 2ND gear on the highway feels just as good or better than any bolt on LS1 I've been around and launching the car is also idiot proof with the 2.73 although I plan to setup an extra ten bolt I have with a 4.10 for it soon.
The car is also an A4 2.73:1 with the stock heavy steel drive shaft. The stock LS1 converter stalls at about 15-1600 behind the 4.8. I think the 4.8 truck converters were like 1800 or so.
The exhaust consists of the stock exhaust manifolds and flat y pipe with just a jegs cutout in front of a magnaflow 12267 weld in muffler and some rusty old 99/02 ws6/SS tailpipes.
the car runs really well for what it is I think. My wife drives it to work every day and we use 87 octane all the time. The tune is just the stock 02 timing table with the pe, ve's, and maf dialed in with a wide band. Idles really good at 650 in neutral and about 550 in gear. I'm shifting it 1-2 at 6600 regularly though it pulls hard all the way to 7200 where I have the limiter set.
I think a lot of you guys have given in to the hype out there that you need the newest biggest grinds and the stiffest valve springs they make just to have a little fun.
The valve train is no louder than stock and it seems to make as good a power down low as the 1721 cam that was in there before and yet it's way more responsive up top. 2ND gear on the highway feels just as good or better than any bolt on LS1 I've been around and launching the car is also idiot proof with the 2.73 although I plan to setup an extra ten bolt I have with a 4.10 for it soon.
I say to anyone considering a budget Ls swap, just get a cheap 4.8 long block and get the rest of the setup sorted out first. Later on down the road if you need more power it's as easy as a simple short block swap because you know everything else already works. I almost forgot I have a 6.0L waiting on the stand haha
