Why is 7 always the problem?
snip..
There may be SOME here that understand Water Flow through the engine block, most of the water that flows through the block EXITS the rear of the block, the REAR cylinders, into the REAR of the heads FIRST.
The engine coolant is then HEATED by the cylinder head as it moves to the front.
I do not argue that head, particular cylinder, temperatures effect detonation, they DUE.
I have modified cooling systems into "reverse cooling" , head first, as was done by my friend John Drake, the builder of the most successful racing engine TO THIS DAY.
The answer, a "fix", could be SO SIMPLE.
Lets spend some time on the ability to modify the head gasket to provide MORE water flow to #7. ...
snip
Lance
There may be SOME here that understand Water Flow through the engine block, most of the water that flows through the block EXITS the rear of the block, the REAR cylinders, into the REAR of the heads FIRST.
The engine coolant is then HEATED by the cylinder head as it moves to the front.
I do not argue that head, particular cylinder, temperatures effect detonation, they DUE.
I have modified cooling systems into "reverse cooling" , head first, as was done by my friend John Drake, the builder of the most successful racing engine TO THIS DAY.
The answer, a "fix", could be SO SIMPLE.
Lets spend some time on the ability to modify the head gasket to provide MORE water flow to #7. ...
snip
Lance
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From: PNW
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Joined: Nov 2016
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From: PNW
Please tell me which race team Will Handzel built engines for. What's that you say? He's never built engines for actual race cars? He's just a writer for a magazine? I see. Well he must be the most experienced person to ask about this topic...
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From: Monroe,NY
You've definitely misunderstood. The water doesn't flow all the way through the block before it flows into the head. The water simply flows from the block to the head and then to the pump. That's why there are coolant passages all along the head and block. The rear-most cylinders get their coolant last.
And not sure where that guy got his information about his rear cylinders running cooler. Either he's an idiot, or, well, I don't know what else he could possibly be.
And not sure where that guy got his information about his rear cylinders running cooler. Either he's an idiot, or, well, I don't know what else he could possibly be.
What are you talking about? It is a steam port issue....and the LS1 DOES have the problem, and shows up more when the steam ports are blocked off. Air ends up in the back of the head with no where to escape which heats the rear cylinders more.
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From: PNW
I said the the LS1 has the problem...
I know, thats why your original post made no sense, "If it were a steam port issue, the LS1 wouldn't have the problem, but it does. If it were an intake issue, you would see differences between various intakes, but you don't."
All LS1's 2000 and later came with LS6 intakes and the steam block off's, so of course LS1's had the issue. 98/99 cars had the LS1 steam ports and you have no way of narrowing down how many of those blew up due to other reasons.
All LS1's 2000 and later came with LS6 intakes and the steam block off's, so of course LS1's had the issue. 98/99 cars had the LS1 steam ports and you have no way of narrowing down how many of those blew up due to other reasons.
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From: PDX-OR-USA
The steam tubes as they call them are really just air bleeds? There really should not be any steam in the system if its a closed system running a coolant. If its straight water then I could see that being a problem when the motor first fires up.
Using a wetting agent in coolant reduces its ability to maintain surface tension so bubbles don't form as easy. Don't know about the LS but in both my BMW's it eliminates issues with bleeding out the system at coolant change time. I use redline or blue ice (Doesnt matter which brand they are all the same chemicals more or less)
I use it because I also take care of some very large facility cooling systems that flow thousands of gallons of glycol and without the wetting agent additives, they foam and bubble up like crazy and you get cavitation easier in the pumps and hot spots in the systems being cooled. (We are talking 36" pipes , and pumps with 40" impellers)
I have a lot of telemetry on the system and I can watch how efficient its running and when we are adding chem you can see the efficiency rise. The system wont even work correctly on straight water.
Just thinking root cause,, its not like GM hasn't been fighting with cooling the LS engines since day one, kinda comes with the territory. Kinda like the original Dex Cool with the built in stop leak...
Using a wetting agent in coolant reduces its ability to maintain surface tension so bubbles don't form as easy. Don't know about the LS but in both my BMW's it eliminates issues with bleeding out the system at coolant change time. I use redline or blue ice (Doesnt matter which brand they are all the same chemicals more or less)
I use it because I also take care of some very large facility cooling systems that flow thousands of gallons of glycol and without the wetting agent additives, they foam and bubble up like crazy and you get cavitation easier in the pumps and hot spots in the systems being cooled. (We are talking 36" pipes , and pumps with 40" impellers)
I have a lot of telemetry on the system and I can watch how efficient its running and when we are adding chem you can see the efficiency rise. The system wont even work correctly on straight water.
Just thinking root cause,, its not like GM hasn't been fighting with cooling the LS engines since day one, kinda comes with the territory. Kinda like the original Dex Cool with the built in stop leak...
Front Gasket Imprint OK, I thank those here who can read then some, the "*8's", that do not have that ability.
My head gasket installation method is to observe the WORD "FRONT" on the gasket.
I ALSO verify the LARGER Jacket Water Passage at the back of the block position, I thus REST.
My Vendor Jim @ Racing Research (Ret.) had the task to certify temperatures on GM cars BEFORE production, this was in Chandler, AZ. at the GM Proving Grounds.
That task began AFTER fitting two thousand (2000) thermocouples, then their outputs were stored in trunk mounted computers.
Would there be a better man to ask ?
Lance
My head gasket installation method is to observe the WORD "FRONT" on the gasket.
I ALSO verify the LARGER Jacket Water Passage at the back of the block position, I thus REST.
My Vendor Jim @ Racing Research (Ret.) had the task to certify temperatures on GM cars BEFORE production, this was in Chandler, AZ. at the GM Proving Grounds.
That task began AFTER fitting two thousand (2000) thermocouples, then their outputs were stored in trunk mounted computers.
Would there be a better man to ask ?
Lance
Teching In
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From: Ca
From my experience, it's a detonation issue, caused by both added air flow from intake design and uneven cooling distribution. I have an aftermarket knock sensor I use on #7 to tune high boost applications.
You've definitely misunderstood. The water doesn't flow all the way through the block before it flows into the head. The water simply flows from the block to the head and then to the pump. That's why there are coolant passages all along the head and block. The rear-most cylinders get their coolant last.
And not sure where that guy got his information about his rear cylinders running cooler. Either he's an idiot, or, well, I don't know what else he could possibly be.
And not sure where that guy got his information about his rear cylinders running cooler. Either he's an idiot, or, well, I don't know what else he could possibly be.
I try to keep an open mind and learn, I know I dont know it all and that I sometimes misunderstood whats posted on the internet. I'm also positive you don't know it all either.
Maybe you could consider those facts before impulsively calling or implying someone on this forum is an idiot or being snide with Jesus comments.
If that is beyond your ability, you can be the first person. I've placed on ignore in like 15 years on this site.
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^^ What he says. Pantera EFI appears to have earned the cred to say what he says, and to discredit him reflects poorly on the one doing so. I continue to learn from his posts on here.
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I never said he had anything to do with racing. He was in charge of development. Engineering. And production of the Gen111 ls1 for gm. He put the people together that designed and produced the engine. He then played a role in the c5r race block and the motors they built to race the corvettes. It's not a magazine it's a book. And in that book he says that others have used the under the manifold.... wait never mind your rite he knows nothing. I didn't write the book what do I care.
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From: PNW
I never said he had anything to do with racing. He was in charge of development. Engineering. And production of the Gen111 ls1 for gm. He put the people together that designed and produced the engine. He then played a role in the c5r race block and the motors they built to race the corvettes. It's not a magazine it's a book. And in that book he says that others have used the under the manifold.... wait never mind your rite he knows nothing. I didn't write the book what do I care.
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Joined: Nov 2016
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From: PNW
I know, thats why your original post made no sense, "If it were a steam port issue, the LS1 wouldn't have the problem, but it does. If it were an intake issue, you would see differences between various intakes, but you don't."
All LS1's 2000 and later came with LS6 intakes and the steam block off's, so of course LS1's had the issue. 98/99 cars had the LS1 steam ports and you have no way of narrowing down how many of those blew up due to other reasons.
All LS1's 2000 and later came with LS6 intakes and the steam block off's, so of course LS1's had the issue. 98/99 cars had the LS1 steam ports and you have no way of narrowing down how many of those blew up due to other reasons.
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From: PNW
So after 15 years on here you still don't understand any of this? That's a complete shame. Please do put me on ignore, you have nothing of value to me.
May your engines valve springs always break, your piston crowns crack, your rod bolts fail, your lifters collapse and you window your block. Be fated to drive a rusty Daewoo for a long time.
Oh and a real man or a woman with integrity or class would have apologized to Lance aka Pantera EFI for being rude.
Goodbye, have a nice day! I'm sure I will with you ignored
