Need help with Cam/Heads/Stall choice (LS!)
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Hutto, TX
Need help with Cam/Heads/Stall choice (LS!) Hey guys, I haven't been on the site for 10 yrs here..
Since then my WS6 has mostly been in storage until about a year ago.
4 months ago I bought a new '16 Z06 A8 and have been drag racing that (best of 10.39 so far), and my 17 year old son has been drag racing my old 2000 model WS6/A4.
The WS6 has been running 12.7's in good air, and 12.9-13.0's in 1500-2000DA. Well, now he's ready to go faster and I am ready to help him.
This is what the WS6 has currently:
Stainless 1.75" LT's, ORY, Borla Catback, PTB, CAI, LID, Smog delete, WS6 intake, A4 w/shift kit and Billet Servo and 4.0 Detroit Locker in a 9", 160 deg. therm., stock heads, stock cam and stock torque converter. 80K miles. 3700lbs.
I am thinking heads, camshaft and stall converter upgrades specifically for quarter mile performance, but i want to stay with the stock short block for now.
Can you guys offer some tips on a good package that would utilize the stock short block, but (goals here) drop 1 second from the 1/4 mile times. I realize this may be a very lofty goal, but that's the approximate goal for now.
Thanks!
Since then my WS6 has mostly been in storage until about a year ago.
4 months ago I bought a new '16 Z06 A8 and have been drag racing that (best of 10.39 so far), and my 17 year old son has been drag racing my old 2000 model WS6/A4.
The WS6 has been running 12.7's in good air, and 12.9-13.0's in 1500-2000DA. Well, now he's ready to go faster and I am ready to help him.
This is what the WS6 has currently:
Stainless 1.75" LT's, ORY, Borla Catback, PTB, CAI, LID, Smog delete, WS6 intake, A4 w/shift kit and Billet Servo and 4.0 Detroit Locker in a 9", 160 deg. therm., stock heads, stock cam and stock torque converter. 80K miles. 3700lbs.
I am thinking heads, camshaft and stall converter upgrades specifically for quarter mile performance, but i want to stay with the stock short block for now.
Can you guys offer some tips on a good package that would utilize the stock short block, but (goals here) drop 1 second from the 1/4 mile times. I realize this may be a very lofty goal, but that's the approximate goal for now.
Thanks!
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 65
Likes: 10
From: Weatherford, TX
I like Advanced Induction. They have a good selection of cam and head packages, and they will mill the heads for compression to match the cam, in order to keep the dynamic compression similar to stock. I first started using them for my 96 impala, and recently had them port and mill my stock LS1 heads for a 383 build I am currently doing. You might also want to look into the new Dorman LS2 intake manifold, I just found out about that one myself.
There a lot out there, it doesn't show where your from but I would recommend either speaking to one of these Vendors or a reputable shop close to you. Either way you cant go wrong.
Last edited by MonmouthCtyLS7; Feb 26, 2017 at 11:18 AM.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Hutto, TX
1 second would be easy.
The question is do you want the car Streetable at all?
If not, go with a CircleD 3E 4400 stall, EPS 236/248 110 Cam, and a set of TFS As Cast 220s worked by Brian Tooley. You'll be low 11s high 10s depending on what the weight ends up being and how effective you can sixty.
The question is do you want the car Streetable at all?
If not, go with a CircleD 3E 4400 stall, EPS 236/248 110 Cam, and a set of TFS As Cast 220s worked by Brian Tooley. You'll be low 11s high 10s depending on what the weight ends up being and how effective you can sixty.
11 Second Club
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 478
Likes: 213
From: Indiana
^this would be an awesome build for a basically track only car as the OP mentioned it could very well be.
If you want something a little more streetable. A Yank SS4000 converter, BTR Stage 3, plus the TFS 220s and a port matched FAST102 intake manifold worked by Tooley would be nice too. The converter is worth a half a second alone. So 1 second is easy in this case.
If you want something a little more streetable. A Yank SS4000 converter, BTR Stage 3, plus the TFS 220s and a port matched FAST102 intake manifold worked by Tooley would be nice too. The converter is worth a half a second alone. So 1 second is easy in this case.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,149
Likes: 60
From: Saskatchewan, Canada - where arguing "DA" is for the slow and weak...
1 second would be easy.
The question is do you want the car Streetable at all?
If not, go with a CircleD 3E 4400 stall, EPS 236/248 110 Cam, and a set of TFS As Cast 220s worked by Brian Tooley. You'll be low 11s high 10s depending on what the weight ends up being and how effective you can sixty.
The question is do you want the car Streetable at all?
If not, go with a CircleD 3E 4400 stall, EPS 236/248 110 Cam, and a set of TFS As Cast 220s worked by Brian Tooley. You'll be low 11s high 10s depending on what the weight ends up being and how effective you can sixty.
There is definitely a means to doing the max effort SBE thing, but it requires a lot of attention to detail and planning. Lord knows I would love to do it one day.
That being said a basic H/C/I package will get you your mid-11s done. Tuning will be cruicial.
In either instance you are going to expose that 4L60e as the weak link in the car. Look at an 80e swap.
Trending Topics
Heads - mamo220
Cam - LLSR with springs, pushrods, etc
Ported MSD intake
You'll be able to get away with less cam, daily drive it, and still make great power. Or swing for the fence. If it's track only.
On a 5.7 bottom end that's going to be on the top tier of performers.
Cam - LLSR with springs, pushrods, etc
Ported MSD intake
You'll be able to get away with less cam, daily drive it, and still make great power. Or swing for the fence. If it's track only.
On a 5.7 bottom end that's going to be on the top tier of performers.
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Heads - mamo220
Cam - LLSR with springs, pushrods, etc
Ported MSD intake
You'll be able to get away with less cam, daily drive it, and still make great power. Or swing for the fence. If it's track only.
On a 5.7 bottom end that's going to be on the top tier of performers.
Cam - LLSR with springs, pushrods, etc
Ported MSD intake
You'll be able to get away with less cam, daily drive it, and still make great power. Or swing for the fence. If it's track only.
On a 5.7 bottom end that's going to be on the top tier of performers.
Or he could go with a set of As Cast 220's.
Exactly. The 220s are not a bad option. But a big enough cam and 4000+ stall should get him there if he's already mid 12s.
s
I dropped down from a larger cam to a smaller cam and didn't lose much. Good heads make up for a lot as well. And there's very few heads for a 3.9" bore that ET like TEA LS6 heads...
s
I dropped down from a larger cam to a smaller cam and didn't lose much. Good heads make up for a lot as well. And there's very few heads for a 3.9" bore that ET like TEA LS6 heads...
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,845
Likes: 255
From: Coast of San Mateo County Between Pacifica & HMB
Heads - mamo220
Cam - LLSR with springs, pushrods, etc
Ported MSD intake
You'll be able to get away with less cam, daily drive it, and still make great power. Or swing for the fence. If it's track only.
On a 5.7 bottom end that's going to be on the top tier of performers.
Cam - LLSR with springs, pushrods, etc
Ported MSD intake
You'll be able to get away with less cam, daily drive it, and still make great power. Or swing for the fence. If it's track only.
On a 5.7 bottom end that's going to be on the top tier of performers.
Alternatively
MMS 223 Sportsman as cast,11.0-11.5;1 Comp. Cam Motion HR 231*/237* .615"/.595" ~114*+3*,FAST 92, 90/92 TB, Stall 3600-4000.
Easy Mid to low 11s and very streetable.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Hutto, TX
A little update for you guys.. on my son's car which i posted about in this thread..
He blew up the stock 4L60E. I purchased a Frank Cahall built 4L60E from a friend who was going turbo and swapping to a TH400, and it came with a 4000 nitrous ProTorque converter ($1300 total). It works beautifully, and with this lower power level is pretty tight.
Keep in mind we still have a bone stock LS1, stock heads, and stock cam, with a LS6 intake, ebay 1-3/4" LT's and a 4.0L 9" rearend.
The car is now running 12.2-12.3's in 2000-2200DA, and I expect it to run a 11.9/12.0 as-is in "great air".
Here is our next move. I bought a 40K mi. SBE LS2 shortblock that came with a ported oil pump and upgraded timing chain and a comp cams .235/.243, .621/.624 113LSA camshaft from another friend ($1500), and have purchased some refreshed As Cast 220's ($1300) (with BTR 660 springs, titanium retainers) that have been milled to 60cc chambers to use on this engine as well. The pistons are .004-.006 out of the hole, so I'm planning on running .040-.042 cometics. That should net me 6.5 cc less with this combo, and about 11.9 comp. +/- if I did my math correctly. I will put the .051's back in it if PTV is too close.
Next move, upgraded new lifters, an OTB Fast102, 92MM TB, and some ARH 1-7/8 LT's and Y-pipe that I picked up used.
I hope to have all of these installed and tuned within a couple of months and then I expect we will need a cage next!!
BTW, the car dyno'd 325RWHP/391RWTQ with the current setup on a loaded mustang dyno. I am thinking the car should pick up at least 100RWHP with this setup conservatively, and at least 1 second off of the ET.
Hope you guys feel I'm headed in the right direction with this one!
IF the cam "is way off", i would consider swapping it to something more appropriate before the engine install..???!?!?
He blew up the stock 4L60E. I purchased a Frank Cahall built 4L60E from a friend who was going turbo and swapping to a TH400, and it came with a 4000 nitrous ProTorque converter ($1300 total). It works beautifully, and with this lower power level is pretty tight.
Keep in mind we still have a bone stock LS1, stock heads, and stock cam, with a LS6 intake, ebay 1-3/4" LT's and a 4.0L 9" rearend.
The car is now running 12.2-12.3's in 2000-2200DA, and I expect it to run a 11.9/12.0 as-is in "great air".
Here is our next move. I bought a 40K mi. SBE LS2 shortblock that came with a ported oil pump and upgraded timing chain and a comp cams .235/.243, .621/.624 113LSA camshaft from another friend ($1500), and have purchased some refreshed As Cast 220's ($1300) (with BTR 660 springs, titanium retainers) that have been milled to 60cc chambers to use on this engine as well. The pistons are .004-.006 out of the hole, so I'm planning on running .040-.042 cometics. That should net me 6.5 cc less with this combo, and about 11.9 comp. +/- if I did my math correctly. I will put the .051's back in it if PTV is too close.
Next move, upgraded new lifters, an OTB Fast102, 92MM TB, and some ARH 1-7/8 LT's and Y-pipe that I picked up used.
I hope to have all of these installed and tuned within a couple of months and then I expect we will need a cage next!!
BTW, the car dyno'd 325RWHP/391RWTQ with the current setup on a loaded mustang dyno. I am thinking the car should pick up at least 100RWHP with this setup conservatively, and at least 1 second off of the ET.
Hope you guys feel I'm headed in the right direction with this one!
IF the cam "is way off", i would consider swapping it to something more appropriate before the engine install..???!?!?
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,845
Likes: 255
From: Coast of San Mateo County Between Pacifica & HMB
Agreed, looks like a really good combo!
I would suggest a VMax Velocity Ring, it is supposed to make
Tuning easier by eliminating the lip behind the 92 MM TB
at the entrance of the 102 Manifold. I am using one on my
Ported LS2 TB with my Ported FAST LS3 Intake.
Biggest difference is at low speed throttle and transition
For street driving, if track only may be little to no benefit.
I would suggest a VMax Velocity Ring, it is supposed to make
Tuning easier by eliminating the lip behind the 92 MM TB
at the entrance of the 102 Manifold. I am using one on my
Ported LS2 TB with my Ported FAST LS3 Intake.
Biggest difference is at low speed throttle and transition
For street driving, if track only may be little to no benefit.
