Speed Master Head studs
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
From: Kansas
Speed Master Head studs i have a 60k ls1 doing the good ole Cam only upgrade and dont really want to drop the $300 on ARP. People talk about Chinese studs but i have read a few posts and ive seen people getting really good Luck about the Speed Master Head studs. Just wanting peoples opinion
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,803
Likes: 333
From: Wilmington, De
You don't really need to pull the heads to replace the cam. If you want to replace the lifters, then you certainly don't need head studs if you aren't pushing tons of boost. Some replacement factory bolts will suit your needs, or ARP bolts for a few dollars more.
Why studs if it's just a cam? Buy the bolts like I did and reuse them as needed, like I did on my truck.
$108.75 on eBay
If your going to do a Big HP upgrade (Turbo, Blower, aggressive cam, monster heads, etc..) then go ahead with the studs, like I did on my car.
Chad
$108.75 on eBay
If your going to do a Big HP upgrade (Turbo, Blower, aggressive cam, monster heads, etc..) then go ahead with the studs, like I did on my car.
Chad
ARP studs are a huge waste of money for a basic NA build. Stock bolts are perfectly fine and holding over 1000whp on some boosted setups. There is 100% no need for ARP studs IMO.
Last edited by Forcefed86; Jul 11, 2017 at 01:17 PM.
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Don't believe the aftermarket hype... studs aren't needed at D1 power levels either. Just like 5 years ago you had to run ARP rod bolts or the engine would instantly explode. Now guys are pushing 1200+ whp at 8300rpm with OEM rod bolts.
This dyno pass making over 1000whp is with used OEM head gaskets and used OEM TTY head bolts.
http://www.lsxmag.com/features/car-f...ottom-end-lq4/
Not that studs will hurt anything, just trying to save you some money.
This dyno pass making over 1000whp is with used OEM head gaskets and used OEM TTY head bolts.
http://www.lsxmag.com/features/car-f...ottom-end-lq4/
Not that studs will hurt anything, just trying to save you some money.
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Funny, the latest Hot Rod mag had a blurb on a Chicom head stud shearing off flush at the deck because... The Allen-head relief was cut so deep it was actually below the nut and torquing it caused the metal to collapse into the void. I did notice mine were also cut very deep.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,803
Likes: 333
From: Wilmington, De
The only downside with the GM bolts is that they aren't reusable. So, if you have to remove the head a second time, you are pretty much at the cost of the ARP bolts after buying the GM stuff twice.
Guys have gone 4’s at at 50ish lbs of boost on S500 frame turbos with the cheap studs in a 5.3. That’s like 1400+hp in a 3000lb chassis.
Most that have problems when they over torque them on install and snap them. It’s the quality control from fastener to fastener that make the china studs a crap shoot. One may torque to 70ftlbs fine and another may break there. IMO if you use them buy 2 sets. That way if one breaks you aren’t waiting weeks on another set. Also treat them as a TTY fastener and don’t reuse them. Especially if you go over 65ftlbs on the final assembly torque like most do. Which they aren’t rated for. Over torqueing a fastener and over stretching it will lessen the clamping force. So you aren’t doing yourself any favors torqueing these to 75-80ftlbs like many do, even if they don’t snap. I ran 25-26 lbs on them torqued to 65ft lbs. Pushing roughly 900hp.
Most that have problems when they over torque them on install and snap them. It’s the quality control from fastener to fastener that make the china studs a crap shoot. One may torque to 70ftlbs fine and another may break there. IMO if you use them buy 2 sets. That way if one breaks you aren’t waiting weeks on another set. Also treat them as a TTY fastener and don’t reuse them. Especially if you go over 65ftlbs on the final assembly torque like most do. Which they aren’t rated for. Over torqueing a fastener and over stretching it will lessen the clamping force. So you aren’t doing yourself any favors torqueing these to 75-80ftlbs like many do, even if they don’t snap. I ran 25-26 lbs on them torqued to 65ft lbs. Pushing roughly 900hp.
Head Stud Tech Hi ALL, I NEVER fit a GM TTY Head Bolt.
The REASON is NOT stated by the above experts.
Example : The GM LS engine was engineered to by assembled ONCE by ROBOTS.
The block head bolt locations VERY often "pull" the threads with bolt (ANY) use after the first installation.
The SAME "tech" is true with respect to Rocker Arm Bolts
The Professional Racing Engine uses studs, that reason is that they are disassembled/assembled often in competition.
Then there is the ARP method of stud design.
ARP manufactures "under-cut" studs to be used with AL heads.
NONE here who specify ARP studs state this art requirement.
Lance
The REASON is NOT stated by the above experts.
Example : The GM LS engine was engineered to by assembled ONCE by ROBOTS.
The block head bolt locations VERY often "pull" the threads with bolt (ANY) use after the first installation.
The SAME "tech" is true with respect to Rocker Arm Bolts
The Professional Racing Engine uses studs, that reason is that they are disassembled/assembled often in competition.
Then there is the ARP method of stud design.
ARP manufactures "under-cut" studs to be used with AL heads.
NONE here who specify ARP studs state this art requirement.
Lance
Thought I don’t claim to be an expert in anyway, I’ve personally pulled apart 10-20 LS engines and have never seen threads pulled out of a block. Not that it can’t happen, but I don’t believe it happens “very often” as we would see/read about it on here if it was common.
IMO. If others have pushed the OEM bolt to “X” HP successfully, you can’t argue that fastener is not suitable for an application making less than half that HP?
Experience trumps all theory/opinion.
We have seen the same set of used TTY bolt used 3-4 times in a row on the same block making over 900-1000whp. This engine was pulled apart multiple times due to failures/issues not related to head gaskets. There was never an issue with the head gasket seal. All was documented and filmed, including the tear down, rebuilds, and torque procedure. And that’s only once instance. The same person has built and tuned multiple 500-700 whp turbo LS setups reusing OEM bolts with no reports of head sealing issues.
Look at the sloppy mechanics wiki page and you tube page. It beyond a doubt proves the OEM bolt is more than enough for 99% of the NA builds out there IMO. The cylinder pressure just isn’t there to need more clamping load than the OEM bolt provides in a typical NA application, or mild boosted application. Hell, even in pretty radical boosted applications they appear to hold up fine.
IMO. If others have pushed the OEM bolt to “X” HP successfully, you can’t argue that fastener is not suitable for an application making less than half that HP?
Experience trumps all theory/opinion.
We have seen the same set of used TTY bolt used 3-4 times in a row on the same block making over 900-1000whp. This engine was pulled apart multiple times due to failures/issues not related to head gaskets. There was never an issue with the head gasket seal. All was documented and filmed, including the tear down, rebuilds, and torque procedure. And that’s only once instance. The same person has built and tuned multiple 500-700 whp turbo LS setups reusing OEM bolts with no reports of head sealing issues.
Look at the sloppy mechanics wiki page and you tube page. It beyond a doubt proves the OEM bolt is more than enough for 99% of the NA builds out there IMO. The cylinder pressure just isn’t there to need more clamping load than the OEM bolt provides in a typical NA application, or mild boosted application. Hell, even in pretty radical boosted applications they appear to hold up fine.
Staging Lane
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 68
Likes: 1
From: Basehor, KS
I went with ARP head bolts (I plan to go procharger later) but I have found no reason to spend more money on head studs especially in a 4th gen where the area is tight. I'd rather put $200 towards anything else.
Speedmaster parts are cheap chinese copies of real performance parts. Every time you use them you're taking a gamble that they won't fail and take your motor with it. Not worth the gamble, IMO. No place in my garage for that junk.
"Not worth the gamble, IMO. No place in my garage for that junk."
I one million percent agree, if your gonna do it, do it right
I would worry about using bolts, OEM or aftermarket, in an aluminum block still in the vehicle because if any fluids are in the bolt holes, you'll crack the block.
There's been posts here where people did everything under the sun to clean & dry the holes and still cracked the block.
No, it's not common but risk ruining your block? This phenomenon does not happen with studs.
Studs engage more threads deeper into the block. The fine threads on the top end are said to allow a more precise torque-down of the heads.
No, boost or higher power levels don't require studs, but it is a much better way to do the job.
These lower cost import studs have been discussed before. As I recall, they do work but there can be consistency issues. Missing nuts, etc. It might be a good idea to buy two sets but then isn't the cost at or more than the genuine ARP studs?
All motors I build are studded.
There's been posts here where people did everything under the sun to clean & dry the holes and still cracked the block.
No, it's not common but risk ruining your block? This phenomenon does not happen with studs.
Studs engage more threads deeper into the block. The fine threads on the top end are said to allow a more precise torque-down of the heads.
No, boost or higher power levels don't require studs, but it is a much better way to do the job.
These lower cost import studs have been discussed before. As I recall, they do work but there can be consistency issues. Missing nuts, etc. It might be a good idea to buy two sets but then isn't the cost at or more than the genuine ARP studs?
All motors I build are studded.