rebuilding engine, looking for torque
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 22,289
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From: Central Cal.
That is not completely correct. While the 243 head did come before the 799 head, the 799 is supposedly a rougher cast produced by outsourced vendors. While the 243 heads are a smother cast produced by GM, both using the same mold from GM making the heads identical. You can visual see the difference between the two under close examination such as roughly casting lines and roughly ports on the 799 heads. Nothing noticeable unless looking for it.
Just to clarify----
243 is die cast. 799 is sand cast. That's the reason for the smoother surface of the 243. They perform identically. The real advantage to 243 heads - if and only if you get them off a vette - is the light weight sodium filled valves. 799 is a fantastic head in stock form.
Hope that helps.
243 is die cast. 799 is sand cast. That's the reason for the smoother surface of the 243. They perform identically. The real advantage to 243 heads - if and only if you get them off a vette - is the light weight sodium filled valves. 799 is a fantastic head in stock form.
Hope that helps.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 22,289
Likes: 3,615
From: Central Cal.
Thank you for clarifying that. With 799's becoming very common, it's nice to know they have the same potential as the revered 243. And of course, as I said, with porting, no difference to speak of.
And yes, you DID help! Thanks again!
And yes, you DID help! Thanks again!
but would the 5.3 do better at bumping compression?
my budget is running thin so im just trying to buy a better set of heads then my stock 853's, im trying not to also pay for porting or milling heads. not at this point anyways.
So maybe the better question is if choosing between the two heads and not porting or milling which would better suit me?
thanks for the advice
my budget is running thin so im just trying to buy a better set of heads then my stock 853's, im trying not to also pay for porting or milling heads. not at this point anyways.
So maybe the better question is if choosing between the two heads and not porting or milling which would better suit me?
thanks for the advice
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: central ky
well i should clear up what I meant. right now i was looking at replacing my stock 853 head with a new set of prc stage 2.5 5.3 CNC ported heads for 1300. when i mentioned budget I meant I cant afford to have more work done to set of 1300 dollar heads, as im already spending more than intended on my rebuild.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: central ky
so as far as the cam goes, if I said I wanted a cam
1. made for torque
2. wouldnt need revved past 6200rpm
3. has a choppy idle
3. didnt care about street manners
4. emmisions are not a issue
is the hotcam mentioned earlier in the thread still the best canidate to build the most torque?
1. made for torque
2. wouldnt need revved past 6200rpm
3. has a choppy idle
3. didnt care about street manners
4. emmisions are not a issue
is the hotcam mentioned earlier in the thread still the best canidate to build the most torque?
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Verdad Gallardo They werent designed solely for torque. It will make a good amount though. It was designed to be an alternative to the gm hot cam and promote more power with a bit higher lift and a brand new lobe design. It was made to be quiet, valvetrain friendly, and budget friendly. We capped the lift at .600 to keep worries away about valve guide wear and the "need" for roller rockers but also to use a nice beehive spring for budget.
If i were to design a cam for torque id add in a but more intake duration and more lift but then it would be like any custom cam.
The negative overlap does help with emissions and im sure the dyno graph will show that. Anything larger without a wider lsa to compensate is going to go into overlap territory and cost you on the emissions side.
If i were to design a cam for torque id add in a but more intake duration and more lift but then it would be like any custom cam.
The negative overlap does help with emissions and im sure the dyno graph will show that. Anything larger without a wider lsa to compensate is going to go into overlap territory and cost you on the emissions side.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: central ky
thanks darth v8r, I looked into the sns2 cam and it seems to be a perfect fit for what I want. An aggresive cam that is more concerned about torque and not cranking 6500 rpm to get it, plus its idle sounds great!
I still want to thank ws6store for all the input and I still intend to order one of your rebuild kits in the near future, along with some other your rpm speed rockers with trunnion upgrade, and a new set of lifters, cant decide between some ls7 or morels.
I still want to thank ws6store for all the input and I still intend to order one of your rebuild kits in the near future, along with some other your rpm speed rockers with trunnion upgrade, and a new set of lifters, cant decide between some ls7 or morels.
Launching!
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 228
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From: Chemical Valley
I have similiar goals and parts as you. Interested to see how yours turns out. Ive got ported/milled 243s and the tick sns torquemax 2 cam. Hopefully i can get it all finished within the next few months.
Depends on who ported them, was it a reputable shop? If it was someone like AI, TEA, etc then yes, if a home port job maybe not. Also are they ready to run or do they need new valve springs, seals, etc?
This is an excellent suggestion. A set of 4.10 gears will do more for observed rear wheel torque than anything.
The formula that I would recommend is some Trick Flow 220 CC as cast heads, Cam Motion Titan 4 camshaft and some 4.10 gears. More torque that your tires will be able to take!
so like the title reads im about to be rebuilding my ls1. I bought the car a few months ago with a ms3 cam already installed but no supporting mods. I installed a edge 3800 stall convertor, then shortly after I lost all oil pressure. drained my oil and its full of metal...so i finally got the motor pulled out and after removing the valley cover I can see my ms3 cam is damaged.
so now that i know im replacing the cam also I think im gonna go a different direction with my build. im looking for the best cam/head package to make low end torque. not really wanting to rev past 6k. I figure for heads the prc stage 2.5 5.3 heads for a bump in compression, but im needing help with cam selection. I prefer a choppy idle but will sacrifice it for more torque. and im not worried about emmisions here.
any info is appreciated
so now that i know im replacing the cam also I think im gonna go a different direction with my build. im looking for the best cam/head package to make low end torque. not really wanting to rev past 6k. I figure for heads the prc stage 2.5 5.3 heads for a bump in compression, but im needing help with cam selection. I prefer a choppy idle but will sacrifice it for more torque. and im not worried about emmisions here.
any info is appreciated
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: central ky
i bought a set of 243 heads with new btr.660 springs, and have plans of ordering the tick sns2 torquemax cam. I also plan to run a thinner head gasket to bump compression a little.
as for gears it currently has 3.73's and running a edge 3800 stall. If after the rebuild is finished I still want more then I will invest in some 4.10's.
as for gears it currently has 3.73's and running a edge 3800 stall. If after the rebuild is finished I still want more then I will invest in some 4.10's.
LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 300
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Our As-Cast 220's deliver 536/482 on our engine dyno. This was on a LS2 shortblock though. We don't increase valve size, but the bore is less shrouded than a LS1 which is worth about of 8 cfm or so over our standard rating. The rest of the engine was a Fast 90, 1 7/8 headers, along with full length 3" duals and flowmasters.
To give you an idea, the cam used for the test was a tfs-3060-2003. It's a 228/230 with 112 lobe separation and .585 lift and peaked at 6350 rpm. Compression was only 10.1:1 on our test engine, so you could certainly pick up power and torque milling the heads to 60cc and hitting 11.3:1
I generally back out about 13% to see approximate whp numbers. This would put it at 466/419 Tq. The F-Body exhaust routing can chew away at that, but I'd still expect 440/415 with minimal bolt ons.
Let me know if you have any questions.
To give you an idea, the cam used for the test was a tfs-3060-2003. It's a 228/230 with 112 lobe separation and .585 lift and peaked at 6350 rpm. Compression was only 10.1:1 on our test engine, so you could certainly pick up power and torque milling the heads to 60cc and hitting 11.3:1
I generally back out about 13% to see approximate whp numbers. This would put it at 466/419 Tq. The F-Body exhaust routing can chew away at that, but I'd still expect 440/415 with minimal bolt ons.
Let me know if you have any questions.
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