Choppy_Idle

Dear fellas!

I will do a head, cam and intake swap to my LS6 engine and a little spray around 100hp!

Asked Martin S. about the best parts to go with and here is what he recommended:

8620 cam motion core (230/234 .620/.603 111+2) Tick SNS Stg.2 LS2
BTR .660" lift Platinum spring kit with Ti retainers
5/16" .080" push rods
ARP cam bolts
ARP crank bolt
Timing cover gasket
Timing cover seal
Water pump gaskets
IWIS timing chain
Melling HP oil pump
Straub bushing trunion upgrade with ARP fasteners
Johnson 2110r lifters

Itīs a daily driver, no strip, drag or circuit, so my favor is early and much tq as possible and high hp peak at moderate rpm, bec i wonīt touch bottom end to climb higher as 6800 to reach the high point, maybe maxed out at 6600 would be my favorite!

One of the most reason to go that way beside more hp (pls donīt laugh now) is to get the nastiest awesomly available rough choppy idle ever possible, bec this sound is the reason why god send me down to earth, itīs better then sex and yes, i had plenty of that and it was good...

I know for sure, that this is the most part of the ecm tune later by setting idle rpm and tune itself to get the hardest sound here and, especially in my case, LSA DOES matter...

Heads might be the Mast 225cc, Trick Flow 225cc LS2 or PRC 227cc

So what do yīall think about, what would be here the best combo?

Greetz
Ron

z-maro

iTrader: (18)

I'd go with a UD pulley while your at it, and get some 11/32" pushrods. What intake are planning to run? For more torque, earlier, a bit smaller cam may be better.

HCI2000SS

iTrader: (2)

Martin didn't recommend any heads?

StealthFormula

iTrader: (35)

I’d personally never want a cam with 10 degrees of overlap in a 6-speed 346 daily driver. It will definitely sound choppy which you said you wanted but be advised it will not drive like stock. Your gears will help but you should expect low-speed bucking and possibly some surging all dependent on the quality of the tune. I didn’t calculate the valve events but I’d expect something a little different for someone looking for early torque. Everyone has different levels of toleration so the above is just my .02

Edit: Since your car came with 243s, what about having TEA or Advanced Induction work them over? Ported 243s from a reputable shop like them plus a nice 22x/23x cam and a FAST would make for a stout combo. Sure there are better heads out there but just thinking out loud since you already have the heads.

black sky

iTrader: (3)

Well said...my setup is pretty close to what you mentioned. There is excellent power to be had with ported 243's. The OP having 243's already is half the battle. I went with Advanced Induction and have been super impressed...even with my smallish cam. As another member posted, 11/32 pushrods are an excellent upgrade. Very shortly, I will be ordering a custom spec cam from Cam Motion (bit bigger) along with 11/32 pushrods. This time I plan on measuring each pushrod individually and ordering as such. Seems there is power to be gained and better valvetrain stability. In finishing, it's been a pretty stable and predictable build, while not being on the edge of destruction.

black sky

iTrader: (3)

That is a little suprising if he diddnt. . He's usually a big fan of Trick Flow and TEA. The new MAST heads the OP mentioned look pretty nice even though they require extra upgrades like most aftermarket head which up the cost.

Choppy_Idle

@ z: Oh, forget to mention, wanna go with Fast LSXR 102 and oem LS2/3 tb bec of cost and i think big enough to feed a 347ci and yes, the SNS stg.2 LS1/6 might be a better choice for early tq and lower peak hp and i wanna go ATI but expensive as hell all of that quality dampeners

@HCI: Martin is still alive, perhaps in business?

Tried 2 or 3 different ways to reach him, but sadly no answer...

@Stealth: Read about bucking and surging in low rpm range, but was told, its all in the tune to eliminate and to get the sound i want by overlap has to sacrifice some other things, no matter, i can live with, 1.sound, 2.driveability... lol

I wanna buy a complete aftermarket core, so i can sell my 243's complete as they are and i live in Germany so there are a lot of shipping costs for 2 ways over the big ocean and other stress like delay to get them back, so better swap to a complete new ones and sell the old...

@black: Are the 11/32" bigger in OD then the 5/16" Martin suggested me?

Then they are heavier, does that also mean more stress on valvetrain like lifter, cam and springs?

black sky

iTrader: (3)

Yes, 11/32 pushrods have a larger diameter than 5/16. Yes, they are heavier. These two aspects seem overkill but can work greatly in your favor. Especially if you plan to spin 6800 rpms and above. Larger diameter pushrods reduce deflection, reduce valve float, and give an overall more stable valvetrain. Pushrod strength comes from diameter not wall thickness. Most say you want the biggest pushrod you can fit in the head. Higher spring pressures could benefit from larger rods too. I think the mini weight gain from larger rods is a small price for strength and stability, especially at higher rpms and aggressive cam lobes. What I'm saying is just an opinion based on what I've read over the years, but also from the teachings of some of the great minds on this site.. Does NOT mean martin is wrong for going 5/16. I just lean towards going all in on parts. Even of its a bit of overkill.

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

On the lifter side of the rocker, go as heavy as you want. The distance being traveled is much less so the added weight is less parasitic. On the valve side, go as light as you can.

Almost every aftermarket cam is going to chop some. Consider choosing a cam for performance characteristics. If it doesn't lope hard enough for you, then slow the idle down, retard the idle timing, and idle a bit rich. Or create a small vacuum leak. I'm being facetious, but I'm not. You can make it chop lots of ways without making the car a PITA

Reading your post, I'm getting the idea that the idea of owning a hot rod might be more fun than the actual driving of said hot rod if you're not careful

black sky

iTrader: (3)

Sorry to sidetrack, but it's very cool you reside in Germany. Must be awesome being that close to the Nordschleife. Always been a dream of mine to take it on. And not destroy my car lol

Choppy_Idle

Thx black for your expertise, going the same way here in reading a lot and build then my own knowledge, what might be the best, will see in the end, which rod to choose from...

@Darth: Yeah, u are right, a old Chevy big block with the right firing order is my big dream, but this is nothing for a daily and i have a fun car too, so this will be the last dream in my life which come be true and i know, that i never can reach this sound with my LS based engine on the 'wrong' firing order...

@all: Nothing against my planned set up, will it be the best bang for the buck or better to say, the best sounding, most powerful setup?

And what about Martin, someone heard of him in the last 4 weeks?

gagliano7

Tirckflow heads touched up from Tooley are the best bang for the bucks heads in my opinion. If Money isn't a problem the Mamo heads seem to deliver.

Choppy_Idle

Jip, heard and seen Mamo is unbeatable in this business, but have my own man here which will make the last corrections on heads and intake...

Something new about Martin?

BaMaDuDe87

Take 4 trying this. I also have a DD LS6 CTS-V basically looking at the same cam as you, so here are my very under qualified thoughts on this set-up:

1. Go with the LS1/6 grind. Ever so slightly lower operating range for your DD wants, will also prob help getting this heavy pig moving a little quicker.
2. BTR Tool steel retainers will be fine, unless you just want to spend extra money on the Ti retainers
3. "IWIS timing chain" - Personal preference, but I am more inclined to go with something like the "Chevrolet Performance Heavy Duty Timing Chain 12646386" from BTR. Again you said this wont be a high revving or seemingly abused car.
4. Just really curious on this one....any reason you are looking at the Johnson 2110r lifters, instead of say a lower priced Morel 5315? Since this will be a DD/lower RPM car? Obviously nothing wrong in going with the 2110r's, but they just seem like overkill in this application? As you said "bang for your buck"
5. Heads.........oof

Choppy_Idle

Basically u are right man, these are not all bang for the buck parts, but i trust Martin very well and i won't let up from his plan, otherwise someone can show me by facts, that this would be the wrong direction i go and cheap isn't ever the best choice, we all know this and i won't start twice here on engine while i want save some bucks, maybe wasn't the best speech i choosed for that project/thread here, i know but thx for your opinion... 👍

Btw, Martin is still alive, some private issues he told me, but he is still in business...

Greetz
Ron