Replicating an LS2 combo I once had into a 97 LS1.
09-08-2018, 10:34 AM
#1
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Replicating an LS2 combo I once had into a 97 LS1. Looking for some thoughts and advice here.
Had a 6spd LS2 05 GTO that made 430/410 to the wheels on a Mustang dyno using a TSP Torquer V2 112 cam. Kooks 1 3/4 long tubes and an OTRCAI.
I now have another LS in the family and would like a similar combo obviously being 18ish cubic inches smaller in displacement. 97 C5 Vette 6spd with 28k miles on it.
My thoughts are on this new project, same cam, same Pac springs, 243 heads (already have on the shelf) that will likely go in for a TSP stage one job. 1 3/4 long tubes again. Fast intake. GTO 90MM TB. Hopefully the same tuner doing his magic.
Even with the slightly smaller displacement power level I would think should be close or maybe even surpass utilizing the Fast intake?
My other questions I've been pulling my hair out over what to replace in this engine. I've been searching combos for a month now and you would swear these LS1s are a moment away from blowing up if you don't replace every piece in the valve train.
Are the stock lifters really that bad that they should not be reused? What's wrong with the lifter trays? I know the LS1 timing chain is less than favorable. Must replace the Oil pump or impending doom? Stock push rods will snap like twigs even if the length would work? Stock rocker arms will fall apart and contaminate the rest of the motor?
Car is not a daily driver and will see less than 5k miles per year.
If you've run a similar combo or had parts failures I'd love to hear your experiences.
Had a 6spd LS2 05 GTO that made 430/410 to the wheels on a Mustang dyno using a TSP Torquer V2 112 cam. Kooks 1 3/4 long tubes and an OTRCAI.
I now have another LS in the family and would like a similar combo obviously being 18ish cubic inches smaller in displacement. 97 C5 Vette 6spd with 28k miles on it.
My thoughts are on this new project, same cam, same Pac springs, 243 heads (already have on the shelf) that will likely go in for a TSP stage one job. 1 3/4 long tubes again. Fast intake. GTO 90MM TB. Hopefully the same tuner doing his magic.
Even with the slightly smaller displacement power level I would think should be close or maybe even surpass utilizing the Fast intake?
My other questions I've been pulling my hair out over what to replace in this engine. I've been searching combos for a month now and you would swear these LS1s are a moment away from blowing up if you don't replace every piece in the valve train.
Are the stock lifters really that bad that they should not be reused? What's wrong with the lifter trays? I know the LS1 timing chain is less than favorable. Must replace the Oil pump or impending doom? Stock push rods will snap like twigs even if the length would work? Stock rocker arms will fall apart and contaminate the rest of the motor? Car is not a daily driver and will see less than 5k miles per year.
If you've run a similar combo or had parts failures I'd love to hear your experiences.
09-08-2018, 11:58 AM
#4
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Thanks guys for the posts so far. I don't have a problem spending money to make it right so lets's get that clear. I also don't like to just spend money for the sake of spending money. I don't have a problem changing the chain and pump with LS2 chain and a standard Melling pump. I was and am still unclear as to what the problem is with the stock LS1 lifters and trays or are the trays even a problem?
Also, I forgot to ask, what is the power ceiling for the stock injectors? I understand they are even smaller than the LS2 stock injectors? Again I don't mind spending the money on injectors if it's needed.
Also, I forgot to ask, what is the power ceiling for the stock injectors? I understand they are even smaller than the LS2 stock injectors? Again I don't mind spending the money on injectors if it's needed.
09-08-2018, 03:19 PM
#5
TECH Senior Member
LS7 lifters are now the default lifter sold by GM and many other suppliers. It's a better lifter than the older ones, so it became the standard offering. The LS2 trays and chain are also a little better design than those before them. These plus the oil pump are all parts that should be changed when going thru an engine just as a good precaution.
09-08-2018, 04:47 PM
#6
TECH Resident
The stock parts aren't really bad. The problem is that they're 20 years old and are probably pretty tired. The new parts have actually superceded the old LS1 stock parts so that's why everyone recommends LS7 lifters/trays and LS2 timing set since they're basically the standard LS1 parts now.
09-08-2018, 04:53 PM
#7
ModSquad
iTrader: (6)
Lifters are a $bill and your pulling the heads anyway. It’s a no brainer. Your new cam will appreciate them. Oil pump as well. Why would you not change them? Yeah, it’s a low mile car, but it’s so easy to do now while your right there.
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09-08-2018, 07:46 PM
#9
I think most people(like me) just do a lot of the internal things as preventative maintenance. Like, as long as I'm in there kind of a thing. I have the combo you are looking at. PRC stage 1, TV2, and Fast 92. 425whp and 400wtq.
09-09-2018, 10:21 AM
#10
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Thanks again for the thoughts. Didn't realize the price on the LS7 lifters and trays could be had for such a decent price. I'll plan on doing the pump, lifters and trays, and the chain for sure. Sticking with stock 2010 rocker assemblies that came on the 243 heads I picked up for 300 bucks. 50k miles on the them.
Any further thoughts on the injectors? Sounds like a 97 engine should have 28lb units. after poking around seems plenty of guys are making 430 or more WHP with them.
Any further thoughts on the injectors? Sounds like a 97 engine should have 28lb units. after poking around seems plenty of guys are making 430 or more WHP with them.
09-09-2018, 10:50 AM
#11
TECH Senior Member
The rockers themselves are fine; it's the bearings in them that might be trouble. A bushing-type trunnion upgrade (CHE or Straub) would be a prudent move.
09-11-2018, 03:15 PM
#12
I’ve got a C5Z you can reference to. With 1-3/4” headers, off-road x, 228/232 cam, ported stock throttle body and thinner .040” head gaskets the car made made 436rwhp/415rwhp on a dynojet. That was with stock untouched LS6 243s and the stock LS6 manifold. I would suspect you to make more than that with a better manifold and head work. In my case, my stock 28.8% injectors we’re maxed out (102% duty cycle). I would strongly advise upgrading to a larger injector. I had to spend money on a retune because I didn’t know I was going to max the stockers out, don’t make the same mistake as me.
Last edited by StealthFormula; 09-11-2018 at 03:21 PM.
09-12-2018, 05:04 PM
#14
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
I’ve got a C5Z you can reference to. With 1-3/4” headers, off-road x, 228/232 cam, ported stock throttle body and thinner .040” head gaskets the car made made 436rwhp/415rwhp on a dynojet. That was with stock untouched LS6 243s and the stock LS6 manifold. I would suspect you to make more than that with a better manifold and head work. In my case, my stock 28.8% injectors we’re maxed out (102% duty cycle). I would strongly advise upgrading to a larger injector. I had to spend money on a retune because I didn’t know I was going to max the stockers out, don’t make the same mistake as me.
I think the 36s would do fine for me instead of 42s.
09-13-2018, 05:07 PM
#15
Look at it this way, the things you mentioned changing are the only real failure points on stock OEM stuff, the highest wearing parts. And you're about to put them under a LOT more strain with the larger cam and heavier springs. It's not that they suck or anything, it's that they don't last forever as it is and you're about to ask them to do triple duty... after 20 years of age at that..