H/c/i
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On The Tree
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 123
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H/c/i currently working on an NA project. What can I expect from this installation?
melling hv oil pump
Double roller timing chain
ws6store 218/227 .600 .600 hot cam
Brian Tooley dual valve springs
ls7 lifters
chromoloy push rods
trunion Kit
243 fully port and polished
fast 92mm intake and TB
slp lid
slp bellow
hooker shorty headers
slp y pipe
slp ud pulley
ssra
jaam ram air kit
32lb injectors
Fast fuel rails
eaton posi diff
moser axles
Lpw 7.5 cover with welded axle tubes
3.42 gears
clutch master fx250
Clutch master light weight steel flywheel
what kind of performance can I expect?
melling hv oil pump
Double roller timing chain
ws6store 218/227 .600 .600 hot cam
Brian Tooley dual valve springs
ls7 lifters
chromoloy push rods
trunion Kit
243 fully port and polished
fast 92mm intake and TB
slp lid
slp bellow
hooker shorty headers
slp y pipe
slp ud pulley
ssra
jaam ram air kit
32lb injectors
Fast fuel rails
eaton posi diff
moser axles
Lpw 7.5 cover with welded axle tubes
3.42 gears
clutch master fx250
Clutch master light weight steel flywheel
what kind of performance can I expect?
Here's my .02 of opinion...
melling hv oil pump - high volume oil pump, eats a little hp and moves more oil volume and helps keep the bearings cooler
Double roller timing chain - a little bit of peace of mind maybe and having to tweak the front cover a little to get it to fit in most cases.
ws6store 218/227 .600 .600 hot cam - decent cam with a good reputation
Brian Tooley dual valve springs - which ones? the typical Platinum are a good quality valve spring
ls7 lifters - good OEM lifter, should work well with your set up
chromoloy push rods - sounds good, be sure to measure to to confirm correct length for push rods
trunion Kit - depends on which kit, some aren't very good and have soft metal. The BTR kit seems good, the CHE has a very good reputation. WS6 Store has several good solutions too.
243 fully port and polished - really depends on who ported the heads. Anywhere from 15hp to 50hp.
fast 92mm intake and TB - probably a nice 15 to 20 hp gain
slp lid - same as any other lid 5-7 hp
slp bellow - it looks nice
hooker shorty headers - if they are the 1 3/4 primary that's better than the typical smaller 1 5/8 primary many shower headers have. LT's are better but emissions requirements may force shorties.
slp y pipe - not much, at higher rpm it may help a couple of hp.
slp ud pulley - 25 percent UD, probably 8 hp and maybe a 1/10 in the quarter mile.
ssra - probably 3/10 from what I've read, it's easy to notice so probably questions about it
jaam ram air kit - 1/10 to 2/10, Stealth look, not real noticeable
32lb injectors - should be enough fuel injector to hit 400+ whp at ~90% duty cycle. Should be an excellent injector for the combination. (Back in the day 28.8's were pushed to 450whp)
Fast fuel rails - they look nice
eaton posi diff - the classic posi traction and feel, if it's 10-bolt?, a time bomb
moser axles - 7.5 inch 10-bolt?, a more expensive time bomb
Lpw 7.5 cover with welded axle tubes - a nice looking 10-bolt that's an even more expensive time bomb
3.42 gears - less fun than if you have 4.10's or even 3.73's.
clutch master fx250 - not familiar with fx250, on sticky tires 10 bolt's usually let go before the clutch does.
Clutch master light weight steel flywheel - probably a couple of hp with the lighter fw
what kind of performance can I expect?
Your car seems like a very fun build.
With good tuning a fantastic drivers car, that makes excellent power with shorty headers and gets good gas mileage. If the car has cats a set of high flow cats would probably help vs the factory cats.
My only two suggestions.
1) Compare what building the 10 bolt is going to cost vs a better rear end like an 8.8 or 9 inch. The 10 bolt may live a long time if your careful and lucky but a prepped track or stick tires and it's at risk. I have a friend that's destroyed half a dozen on the street with decent tires.
A good set of adjustable UMI roto-joint LCA's can help with avoiding wheel hop. The hop seems to be a real 10-bolt killer in my experience.
2) 4.10's are really fun with six speed. So are 3.73's. Gears are one of the best mod's in my experience with a 4th Gen with a T56.
Probably ~385 whp to 405 whp
Best wishes with the build and keep us updated.
melling hv oil pump - high volume oil pump, eats a little hp and moves more oil volume and helps keep the bearings cooler
Double roller timing chain - a little bit of peace of mind maybe and having to tweak the front cover a little to get it to fit in most cases.
ws6store 218/227 .600 .600 hot cam - decent cam with a good reputation
Brian Tooley dual valve springs - which ones? the typical Platinum are a good quality valve spring
ls7 lifters - good OEM lifter, should work well with your set up
chromoloy push rods - sounds good, be sure to measure to to confirm correct length for push rods
trunion Kit - depends on which kit, some aren't very good and have soft metal. The BTR kit seems good, the CHE has a very good reputation. WS6 Store has several good solutions too.
243 fully port and polished - really depends on who ported the heads. Anywhere from 15hp to 50hp.
fast 92mm intake and TB - probably a nice 15 to 20 hp gain
slp lid - same as any other lid 5-7 hp
slp bellow - it looks nice
hooker shorty headers - if they are the 1 3/4 primary that's better than the typical smaller 1 5/8 primary many shower headers have. LT's are better but emissions requirements may force shorties.
slp y pipe - not much, at higher rpm it may help a couple of hp.
slp ud pulley - 25 percent UD, probably 8 hp and maybe a 1/10 in the quarter mile.
ssra - probably 3/10 from what I've read, it's easy to notice so probably questions about it
jaam ram air kit - 1/10 to 2/10, Stealth look, not real noticeable
32lb injectors - should be enough fuel injector to hit 400+ whp at ~90% duty cycle. Should be an excellent injector for the combination. (Back in the day 28.8's were pushed to 450whp)
Fast fuel rails - they look nice
eaton posi diff - the classic posi traction and feel, if it's 10-bolt?, a time bomb
moser axles - 7.5 inch 10-bolt?, a more expensive time bomb
Lpw 7.5 cover with welded axle tubes - a nice looking 10-bolt that's an even more expensive time bomb
3.42 gears - less fun than if you have 4.10's or even 3.73's.
clutch master fx250 - not familiar with fx250, on sticky tires 10 bolt's usually let go before the clutch does.
Clutch master light weight steel flywheel - probably a couple of hp with the lighter fw
what kind of performance can I expect?
Your car seems like a very fun build.
With good tuning a fantastic drivers car, that makes excellent power with shorty headers and gets good gas mileage. If the car has cats a set of high flow cats would probably help vs the factory cats.
My only two suggestions.
1) Compare what building the 10 bolt is going to cost vs a better rear end like an 8.8 or 9 inch. The 10 bolt may live a long time if your careful and lucky but a prepped track or stick tires and it's at risk. I have a friend that's destroyed half a dozen on the street with decent tires.
A good set of adjustable UMI roto-joint LCA's can help with avoiding wheel hop. The hop seems to be a real 10-bolt killer in my experience.
2) 4.10's are really fun with six speed. So are 3.73's. Gears are one of the best mod's in my experience with a 4th Gen with a T56.
Probably ~385 whp to 405 whp
Best wishes with the build and keep us updated.
im confused as to what makes this a nice build besides spending 40% more than you have to make ok numbers.
in my opinion you are wasting money on.....
double roller timing......judging by the rest of your build not shifting above 6700 so an ls2 chain would be plenty
a fully port an polish.......wasting money unless you send them to an actual CNC porter, when i see port and polish that just screams somebody taking your money and "doing a dremel wheel job" so please explain to us who is doing this work and how much
slp bellow....again it looks cool and if it gains 1 hp id say its worth it
hooker shortys, do you really wanna spend 350 bucks for 10 hp when you can spend 500 on a full length and gain 25?
fast rails......how about you dont get those, and spend that money for the full length headers
eaton posi and moser axles, LPW cover......dont waste your money on your 10 bolt, these wont make it any stronger.
and never heard of the clutch
in my opinion you are wasting money on.....
double roller timing......judging by the rest of your build not shifting above 6700 so an ls2 chain would be plenty
a fully port an polish.......wasting money unless you send them to an actual CNC porter, when i see port and polish that just screams somebody taking your money and "doing a dremel wheel job" so please explain to us who is doing this work and how much
slp bellow....again it looks cool and if it gains 1 hp id say its worth it
hooker shortys, do you really wanna spend 350 bucks for 10 hp when you can spend 500 on a full length and gain 25?
fast rails......how about you dont get those, and spend that money for the full length headers
eaton posi and moser axles, LPW cover......dont waste your money on your 10 bolt, these wont make it any stronger.
and never heard of the clutch
Not everyone can get away with long tube headers depending on emissions testing in their given state. From the context this looks like an attempt to make over 400 whp NA in a smog **** state like California and still pass smog testing.
If long tubes are an option for the OP they should be used of course.
What makes it a nice build in my opinion is it appears the OP is trying to pass a strict smog test and has carefully planned out the build around that massive restriction.
Back in the early days of LS1 builds attempting to make 400+ and pass smog the folks I knew favored a custom XER 224/224 cam on a 113-115 with .581 lift and ~ 4 degrees advance for similar sorts of builds but that was over 16 years ago...and many things change over time.
If long tubes are an option for the OP they should be used of course.
What makes it a nice build in my opinion is it appears the OP is trying to pass a strict smog test and has carefully planned out the build around that massive restriction.
Back in the early days of LS1 builds attempting to make 400+ and pass smog the folks I knew favored a custom XER 224/224 cam on a 113-115 with .581 lift and ~ 4 degrees advance for similar sorts of builds but that was over 16 years ago...and many things change over time.
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; Feb 17, 2019 at 09:33 PM.
im confused as to what makes this a nice build besides spending 40% more than you have to make ok numbers.
in my opinion you are wasting money on.....
double roller timing......judging by the rest of your build not shifting above 6700 so an ls2 chain would be plenty
a fully port an polish.......wasting money unless you send them to an actual CNC porter, when i see port and polish that just screams somebody taking your money and "doing a dremel wheel job" so please explain to us who is doing this work and how much
slp bellow....again it looks cool and if it gains 1 hp id say its worth it
hooker shortys, do you really wanna spend 350 bucks for 10 hp when you can spend 500 on a full length and gain 25?
fast rails......how about you dont get those, and spend that money for the full length headers
eaton posi and moser axles, LPW cover......dont waste your money on your 10 bolt, these wont make it any stronger.
and never heard of the clutch
in my opinion you are wasting money on.....
double roller timing......judging by the rest of your build not shifting above 6700 so an ls2 chain would be plenty
a fully port an polish.......wasting money unless you send them to an actual CNC porter, when i see port and polish that just screams somebody taking your money and "doing a dremel wheel job" so please explain to us who is doing this work and how much
slp bellow....again it looks cool and if it gains 1 hp id say its worth it
hooker shortys, do you really wanna spend 350 bucks for 10 hp when you can spend 500 on a full length and gain 25?
fast rails......how about you dont get those, and spend that money for the full length headers
eaton posi and moser axles, LPW cover......dont waste your money on your 10 bolt, these wont make it any stronger.
and never heard of the clutch
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I have to disagree with your statement about the heads needing to get CNC port work. I have ported my own heads before, actually it was the first set I have ever ported, and they performed very well. Most of the gains to be had are in the bowl work. I never had them flow tested but my T/A was running 10.80’s with a sbe LS1 damn near full weight. Is it possible that I could have picked up a little more if I had paid for a CNC port? Sure but I’m not sure it’s worth the additional cost. To the OP, it’s very possible to make good power with a hand ported set of heads as long as whoever ported them has a little bit of knowledge about air flow and a steady hand.
i understand if you are skilled you can do basic work to them and perform very well, i should have said, "unless you know you can do them yourself, you would be better sending them off to a cnc shop rather than having your neighbor gary who says he can port do the work for you.
and black byrd, i though the same too about needing to pass smog at first, but then i looked at his cam which looks like it would be tough to pass, and then i saw the y pipe not saying anything about cats, as well as the headers not saying anything about emissions. then he also doesnt have where he is from. so yea, i understand the exhaust options if he is trying to pass that, but i really dont think he is......but we all can agree about his 1000 investment into his 10 bolt
Last edited by Floorman279; Feb 18, 2019 at 05:50 AM. Reason: ......
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Verdad Gallardo Floorman279, that's a good point on the WS6 Store Hotcam it only has -1.5 negative overlap being 218/227 but is typically on a 112 lsa. It might pass but it would be on the edge from what I recall.
If the OP isn't in Commi-fornia or similar then there's definitely some tweaks like long tubes and true duals to be made to the exhaust etc. Hopefully the OP will reply with more details.
I'm aware of a custom 224/224 113 LSA that could squeak through a sniffer test if everything else was dead on. It had -2 degrees of over lap.
The original GM Hotcam was an epic fail at the sniffer test, one of my friends tried it. It was a 219/228 on a 112 with -0.5 of negative overlap.
The 2x roller timing maybe there as way to try to to reduce timing chain stretch over the long run to keep the cam timing precise. Single rollers seem more prone to stretch over time on cars that see a lot miles. I've had 2x rollers on two LS projects wasn't that much more cash but it was a lot more hassle to get fitted.
If the OP isn't in Commi-fornia or similar then there's definitely some tweaks like long tubes and true duals to be made to the exhaust etc. Hopefully the OP will reply with more details.
I'm aware of a custom 224/224 113 LSA that could squeak through a sniffer test if everything else was dead on. It had -2 degrees of over lap.
The original GM Hotcam was an epic fail at the sniffer test, one of my friends tried it. It was a 219/228 on a 112 with -0.5 of negative overlap.
The 2x roller timing maybe there as way to try to to reduce timing chain stretch over the long run to keep the cam timing precise. Single rollers seem more prone to stretch over time on cars that see a lot miles. I've had 2x rollers on two LS projects wasn't that much more cash but it was a lot more hassle to get fitted.
yea in my opinion he's coming up short in 2 different ways
1) will have an issue with emissions
2) if emissions is of no concern, he is spending money on parts that wont perform as well as others with similar price tags
1) will have an issue with emissions
2) if emissions is of no concern, he is spending money on parts that wont perform as well as others with similar price tags
I like the combo, it should be a ton of fun and make power everywhere.
With ported 243's and a FAST intake and other mods, prob 410-430 at the tires
If you could take it to the track and launch hard be a mid 11 sec car if it isn't too heavy and if your altitude isn't too high. All things perfect maybe a low 11. Hard to say, i'd say at potential the car would do 10.9-11.5, the 10.9 being a day that Jesus took the wheel maybe, but it's possible.
As for the 10 bolt, with 3.42's and mosers and an aftermarket posi it will be stronger and do some work, but it wont take high RPM clutch dump launches. It can take clutch slip/preloaded launches especially on soft side walls.
Put slicks on it if you want the 10 bolt to last longer, the softer sidewall absorbs shock loads and lighter weight helps it too, and helps you go faster. So some 15" with tall soft sidewalls...
With ported 243's and a FAST intake and other mods, prob 410-430 at the tires
If you could take it to the track and launch hard be a mid 11 sec car if it isn't too heavy and if your altitude isn't too high. All things perfect maybe a low 11. Hard to say, i'd say at potential the car would do 10.9-11.5, the 10.9 being a day that Jesus took the wheel maybe, but it's possible.
As for the 10 bolt, with 3.42's and mosers and an aftermarket posi it will be stronger and do some work, but it wont take high RPM clutch dump launches. It can take clutch slip/preloaded launches especially on soft side walls.
Put slicks on it if you want the 10 bolt to last longer, the softer sidewall absorbs shock loads and lighter weight helps it too, and helps you go faster. So some 15" with tall soft sidewalls...
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