Too Much Valve Spring
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Too Much Valve Spring i currently have a LQ4 that I am doing a single turbo build now. I wanted to go with SS2 cam or a Triple 12 . It has stock 317 heads with Single PSI springs 190lb/1.85. installed height. 400 1.20..open height 1.50 coil bind.
TOOL STEEL 10 DEGREE RETAINERS
STEEL SPRING SEATS
CUSTOM HARDENED 10 DEGREE VALVE LOCKS.
is this Too much spring for these cams? Definitely gonna need stronger rods
TOOL STEEL 10 DEGREE RETAINERS
STEEL SPRING SEATS
CUSTOM HARDENED 10 DEGREE VALVE LOCKS.
is this Too much spring for these cams? Definitely gonna need stronger rods
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Last edited by KCS; Mar 26, 2019 at 08:27 AM. Reason: Non-Sponsor Link Removed
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There's no such thing as "too much valve spring", until you get to the point that the pressure on the cam lobes damages them, or push rods bend, or valves/seats are overwhelmed, or stuff like that. It's not like a "mild" cam like a triple 12 is compromised functionally somehow by the valves following its profile too closely.
Those are some pretty stout springs but don't look to me like they'll be "too much", as long as they're set up at 1.85". Which of course is NOT the stock LSx height. This is NOT a "just buy it and slap it together" kind of deal NO MATTER WHAT cam you use. You'll need to verify that the keepers offset the retainers .050" to achieve that. Can't tell by looking at them whether they do, maybe you can call and ask.
Those are some pretty stout springs but don't look to me like they'll be "too much", as long as they're set up at 1.85". Which of course is NOT the stock LSx height. This is NOT a "just buy it and slap it together" kind of deal NO MATTER WHAT cam you use. You'll need to verify that the keepers offset the retainers .050" to achieve that. Can't tell by looking at them whether they do, maybe you can call and ask.
I disagree. There IS such a thing as too much spring for your combination.
Suppose for example one uses springs with an open pressure of 600 lbs, seat pressure of 250 lbs, stock pushrods, and LS7 lifters (which are really just stock lifters but everyone thinks they are super-ultra-mega lifters or something). What will happen is you will fully compress your lifters, reducing lift, flex your pushrods during lift, then when you reach the top of the lobe, the pushrod will "polevault" the valve, which will then come slamming down and damage the lifter roller, cam lobe, valve tip, or some combination of all three.
Not to mention I have friends who have broken the tips off the valve due to too much valve spring.
IF one has very strong one piece valves, solid lifters or at least lifters that have a much heaver resistance such as johnson 2126ST, and runs baseball bats for pushrods, then yes, you can run high spring rates with no fear. For me, I like to run one piece valves, solid lifters, 3/8 pushrods if I can make them fit, and I spring for 410 open pressure at 600 lift and approx. 165 seat pressure, and have no issues. I also choose springs such that with minor shimming, fully open valve is at 0.050" away from coil bind.
Suppose for example one uses springs with an open pressure of 600 lbs, seat pressure of 250 lbs, stock pushrods, and LS7 lifters (which are really just stock lifters but everyone thinks they are super-ultra-mega lifters or something). What will happen is you will fully compress your lifters, reducing lift, flex your pushrods during lift, then when you reach the top of the lobe, the pushrod will "polevault" the valve, which will then come slamming down and damage the lifter roller, cam lobe, valve tip, or some combination of all three.
Not to mention I have friends who have broken the tips off the valve due to too much valve spring.
IF one has very strong one piece valves, solid lifters or at least lifters that have a much heaver resistance such as johnson 2126ST, and runs baseball bats for pushrods, then yes, you can run high spring rates with no fear. For me, I like to run one piece valves, solid lifters, 3/8 pushrods if I can make them fit, and I spring for 410 open pressure at 600 lift and approx. 165 seat pressure, and have no issues. I also choose springs such that with minor shimming, fully open valve is at 0.050" away from coil bind.
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I disagree. There IS such a thing as too much spring for your combination.
Suppose for example one uses springs with an open pressure of 600 lbs, seat pressure of 250 lbs, stock pushrods, and LS7 lifters (which are really just stock lifters but everyone thinks they are super-ultra-mega lifters or something). What will happen is you will fully compress your lifters, reducing lift, flex your pushrods during lift, then when you reach the top of the lobe, the pushrod will "polevault" the valve, which will then come slamming down and damage the lifter roller, cam lobe, valve tip, or some combination of all three.
Not to mention I have friends who have broken the tips off the valve due to too much valve spring.
IF one has very strong one piece valves, solid lifters or at least lifters that have a much heaver resistance such as johnson 2126ST, and runs baseball bats for pushrods, then yes, you can run high spring rates with no fear. For me, I like to run one piece valves, solid lifters, 3/8 pushrods if I can make them fit, and I spring for 410 open pressure at 600 lift and approx. 165 seat pressure, and have no issues. I also choose springs such that with minor shimming, fully open valve is at 0.050" away from coil bind.
Suppose for example one uses springs with an open pressure of 600 lbs, seat pressure of 250 lbs, stock pushrods, and LS7 lifters (which are really just stock lifters but everyone thinks they are super-ultra-mega lifters or something). What will happen is you will fully compress your lifters, reducing lift, flex your pushrods during lift, then when you reach the top of the lobe, the pushrod will "polevault" the valve, which will then come slamming down and damage the lifter roller, cam lobe, valve tip, or some combination of all three.
Not to mention I have friends who have broken the tips off the valve due to too much valve spring.
IF one has very strong one piece valves, solid lifters or at least lifters that have a much heaver resistance such as johnson 2126ST, and runs baseball bats for pushrods, then yes, you can run high spring rates with no fear. For me, I like to run one piece valves, solid lifters, 3/8 pushrods if I can make them fit, and I spring for 410 open pressure at 600 lift and approx. 165 seat pressure, and have no issues. I also choose springs such that with minor shimming, fully open valve is at 0.050" away from coil bind.
thanks
I would honestly drop to the psi 1515's. Will be less abusive overall.
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Seller actually sells a complete kit with the SS2 cam. This is how he responded back when I asked about the install height
“These are the springs we developed for the sloppy 2 cam the retainers are +.050”
Not that it matters but I am using the LS7 lifters
“These are the springs we developed for the sloppy 2 cam the retainers are +.050”
Not that it matters but I am using the LS7 lifters
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I wouldn’t buy springs from ebay. PRC and BTR both have good springs kits that have served many of us very well. I’ve used them in every one of my personal builds as well as many others.
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Yup, like I said, no such thing as too much spring UNTIL... Darth's examples are definitely past the UNTIL kind of deal that I spoke of. He's right too, to that extent; but I don't think imagining a TOTAL OVERKILL setup like he spec'ed is a good way to compare to what you're doing.
Those springs, PROPERLY SET UP, are OK for your cam choice; considerably beyond "necessary", but not "excessive". They're not to the UNTIL point. Although, better than stock push rods are HIGHLY recommended, and in fact are a significant improvement over stock even with a stock cam.
I personally have always liked springs with LOTS of seat pressure and a relatively low rate. In many motors (other than LS ones) over the years. Typically this means springs wound of many turns of fine wire, with a free height MUCH greater than the installed height. That combo gives the best valve control without risking "over the nose" loads that destroy parts or "compress" lifters. 400 over the nose at .650" when you're only running .550" or so, isn't going to break anything.
Those springs, PROPERLY SET UP, are OK for your cam choice; considerably beyond "necessary", but not "excessive". They're not to the UNTIL point. Although, better than stock push rods are HIGHLY recommended, and in fact are a significant improvement over stock even with a stock cam.
I personally have always liked springs with LOTS of seat pressure and a relatively low rate. In many motors (other than LS ones) over the years. Typically this means springs wound of many turns of fine wire, with a free height MUCH greater than the installed height. That combo gives the best valve control without risking "over the nose" loads that destroy parts or "compress" lifters. 400 over the nose at .650" when you're only running .550" or so, isn't going to break anything.
Those look like the psi 1516's. They're a bit much, and possibly will compress your lifters - I'm assuming you're running stock. If you run 11/32 x 0.120 pushrods - manton series 5, should be OK on valve control. FYI - that coil bind number is a typo - should be 1.050" coil bind if I'm right and they are 1516's
I would honestly drop to the psi 1515's. Will be less abusive overall.
I would honestly drop to the psi 1515's. Will be less abusive overall.
The 1515 is also made for ls7 valves only and installs at 1.9. I honestly don't know what springs those can be but they don't match anything I see with psi and a 1.85 installed height rating is sort of weird as well. I'd skip them and buy some better lifters too
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I don't think they're 1516 Jake. I run the 1516 and when they're installed at 1.800 it results in 150 on the seat and 420 at 1.14. Really not sure aggressive and very similar to the 1515 just at a different installed height
The 1515 is also made for ls7 valves only and installs at 1.9. I honestly don't know what springs those can be but they don't match anything I see with psi and a 1.85 installed height rating is sort of weird as well. I'd skip them and buy some
Better lifters too
The 1515 is also made for ls7 valves only and installs at 1.9. I honestly don't know what springs those can be but they don't match anything I see with psi and a 1.85 installed height rating is sort of weird as well. I'd skip them and buy some
Better lifters too
BEST VALVE SPRING..BAR NONE !!!!
PSI SINGLE VALVE SPRINGS
H13 TOOL STEEL 10 DEGREE RETAINERS
STEEL SPRING SEATS
CUSTOM HARDENED 10 DEGREE VALVE LOCKS MANUFACTURERED BY PRECISION PRODUCTS PERFORMANCE..THE NUMBER ONE NASCAR VALVE LOCK MANUFACTURER.
MAHLE VALVE SEALS
190lb/1.85.installed height..400/1.20..open height
1.50 coil bind
All are parts are made in AMERICA by proud American workers
These valves spring are MONSTERS. !!!!
Development was a joint venture
between PSI and a top NASCAR team.THEY BEAT ANY OTHER VALVE SRING ON THE SCENE, SINGLE OR DUAL....IN PERFORMANCE AND LONGEVITY.They are good for .640 lift at 1.850 installed hight. THEY CAN'T BE BEAT !!!!
Those aren't even beehive springs. Likely they're some nascar spec springs that psi makes and are commonly found on Ebay when they're taken off engines and this guy is selling them
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Too much non sense with these springs returning them and gonna get
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sme-174003/
thanx for all the help
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sme-174003/
thanx for all the help
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Too much non sense with these springs returning them and gonna get
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sme-174003/
thanx for all the help
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sme-174003/
thanx for all the help
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You'll be happy with those. They are 140 at the seat and 380 open and .050 out of bind (@.600) to dampen the coils. We also started offering the (Double Platinum) Nanopeened versions of the Trick Flow (by Pac) TFS-2500286P (steel retainer) or TFS-2500287P (Ti retainer). Those are 160lb seat, 395 @ .600, and 425 lbs. at .670 max lift. We have them priced very attractively.
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And sorry, no discount codes but we do run sales from time to time-but we get no advance notice of when they will be.