trilkb

iTrader: (4)

Then it aint big enough :-)

NEstyle

iTrader: (1)

An auto with a good converter helps a lot with drivability. If the car in the video had an auto and an appropriate converter, he may never have even wanted to change the cam. A big cam car with a manual sounds miserable to me.

SLOW SEDAN

iTrader: (13)

Exactly

Or he could have tuned the first cam to work and give it the supporting mods it needed to work well. Its really
not hard to make that cam or even bigger work fine with a manual. However, not everyone spends the time on the tune which is kinda funny when the guy posting the video is a tuner that people pay to fix things exactly like this.

G Atsma

All the above is true. The first cam COULD have been tuned around so drivability would be improved, but possibly not to a point where it's still not a pain to drive in traffic, parking lots, etc. There is only so much you can do to make a raggedy cam like that behave on the street.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Cam shaft selection is often about what's in fashion at the time

97-99 Tiny Cams Without Tunes due little ability to tune LS cars, small aftermarket, cam like the Lingenfelter GT 2-3 were state of the art, even radical. Most are out of fashion a few good ones like GT2-3 live on 20 years later in FI. 360-370 whp is a good number for heads and cam cars. Voodoo black magic boxes like the "MAF Translator" promised allowing "tuning" and slight timing tweaks and adjusting air / fuel at the flip of a couple of dip switches.

99-00 Dude! 216/220! I don't know man that's a really BIG CAM! Rise & popularly of LS1 Edit changes everything for the better. Normal folks H&C cams often break 400 whp regularly. AutoTap software allows monitoring and resetting codes from a laptop.

00-01 The Single Pattern Awaking MTI's T1 & B1 221/221 cams rock the forums and the LS world. The Hammer cams arrive 222/222 and look am awful lot like classic SBC cams. The TR 220/220 and 224/224 developed an intense following with fantastic results. Morgan Motorsports 229v2.1 a 229/229 cam is the first cam I read about breaking the 450 whp barrier in a heads & cam LS1. Folks with 224/224 MMS cams get instant respect at car shows. Old timers "..wantmy new Corvette to talk like that!" Single patterns on also play nicer with drive ability with the tuning available and gradually cam size starts to increase.

01-02 The XER, One Lobe Rules Them All with the signature "Sewing Machine Sound" With lots of 224/224 and 228/228 cam combo's. The 224/230, 227/230 and 230/230 and similar become standards. The LS6 intake a hot must have item. Dealer retail is $685. Carefully shopping pays off with $400 LS6 intakes. Many of these specs will live on with newer lobe designs. (I have a soft spot for that nasty mechanical sound a 224/224 XER can make)

02-03 Reverse-Split or You Ain't ****. The fat intake lobe rules. 230/224, 227/224 or Stealth 224/220 are the rage.

03-04 Traditional Double Pattern aka Return to Sanity and good tuning. 231/237 cams with XER's are found to make excellent power with Stock LS6 heads.

05+ Bigger Are Better results cause more folks can actually find a good tune. EFI Live & HP Tuners take over as LS1 Edit starts fading away.

Other schools of thought aka marketing cycle in and out of mind and so

Go BIG or go Home - aka the era of Let's get ignorant with big cams like MS3, MS4 and 240/244 in the 346 LS1/LS6. Donkey Dick's & Horse ****'s for the masses.

Bolt-On City when Stock cam & stock heads and like $6,000 worth of bolt-on's / strap-on's break 450+ whp

Big Heads & Little Cam

Small port Heads & Big Cam

The Matched Combo - High Quality Heads, Custom matched cam and tweaked intake for The Combo. 500+ whp LS1's are the result.

The Professional Matched Combo - High Quality Heads, Custom matched cam and tweaked intake for The Ultimate Combo. 525+ whp LS1's are the result.

The Daily Driver - 85 percent max performance and 100 percent driver ability

...and the fascinating story is still unfolding twenty - two years later...

G Atsma

Dude, you put LS cam history in a nutshell! Good read! And explains a LOT!

HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

Hard to beat those strap ons!

mOtOrHeAd MiKe

iTrader: (8)

This is a wonderful and very accurate summary.

kinglt-1

iTrader: (26)

Nailed it!!

00pooterSS

iTrader: (40)

wannafbody

iTrader: (2)

There comes a point where throwing a lot of money at a higher mileage stock block LS1 might not be the best idea. Even budget builds add up. After a while you are getting into blueprinted stroker territory price wise. Good heads for a 346 might not be optimal for a 408, ect, ect.

gagliano7

Why did you say that? Besides a dyno tune he always takes the time to make sure the car drives great.

Fast355

I tuned a 227/235 with .640 lift in an 04 GTO 5.7 engine yesterday. The engine is in a 1970 Chevelle. Has PRC heads, an Jegs aluminum high rise with a DBC 90mm TB, long tube headers, dual exhaust with a X-pipe. Has the stock GTO 4L60E and stock converter with 3.73s. Car idles with a slight chop at 650 rpm in drive with the a/c on. Has instant throttle reponse and can easily boil the rear tires well into 2nd gear. Has perfect driveability around town and cruises effortlessly at 2,100 rpm @ 70 on the highway.

Mike Morris

iTrader: (55)

x2. Smh

G Atsma

I think some of you are missing the point. Here, a nasty cam was messing up the driving experience. A milder cam goes in, and VOILA! a better way to go!
BUT some of you say, "Adapt the rest of the build to the cam, and it will be all better!" Maybe so. The deal is, it is FAR less expensive (OK, CHEEEEPER!) to put in a milder cam. The owner is happy.
Moral here is, a nasty cam is NOT the ultimate goal here. The RIGHT cam for the situation is. You do not run a nasty cam to the detriment of other factors. Here's to YOU, slow sedan and Mike Morris....

LLLosingit

iTrader: (4)

I don't know that anyone is missing the point, The thread title implies a smaller cam makes more power and in some cases that's true but if you take the time to match all componets you can make more power with a bigger cam. How much drivability is effected depends on the complete package including the tune, Some people are willing to sacrifice drivability to a point and how much differs from person to person.
One of my builds is a daily so it got a mild cam, The other is a weekender and it's pretty radical, I like them both.

SLOW SEDAN

iTrader: (13)

I think you are in the group missing the point. Did the tuner who posted the video even attempt to make the larger cam drive better?


I did exactly that this weekend, friend brought me a car that another tuner did that drove like complete dogshit. Car has a pretty big cam 240+ duration, but after a few tweaks it was driving fine. Personally if you call yourself a tuner and you are charging people to tune their vehicles then you should be taking the time to ensure that you make the most of whatever setup they bring you. Anyone can make a few WOT dyno pulls and call it a tune, the hard part comes when it gets off the dyno.

G Atsma

The point WAS, as you still missed it, it was less expensive to put in a smaller cam than to adapt the rest of the setup to the original cam. This tuner seems to know what he is doing. The owner of the car likely did not want to deal with the rough cam, because even if it could be made to drive better, there are still compromises in driving such a cam.

SLOW SEDAN

iTrader: (13)

A proper tune is cheaper than a cam swap, especially when you are already paying for a tune which is my point. True there are compromises to every cam, some people just shouldn't modify cars.

G Atsma

OK, I get that, but with the cam that was in there, it still would have loped quite a bit. It's unavoidable with that big a cam. Possibly he owner did not want to deal with that much lope, no matter how well it could be tuned to drive relatively well. I think the owner of this car bought it with the cam in it.
Not modding cars is not the answer; it's modding with the right parts, or modding that suits the car's owner. The original cam did not suit the owner. Trying to live with a lopey cam is not a badge of honor