Were did I go wrong with my engine combo
06-04-2019, 08:49 PM
#83
It's the tune. I drove a cam almost that big in a 346. It took a long time to make it work right. But it did.
Also, I would leave the cam in there. You aren't changing the cam enough for it to matter. If you can make the 237/245 cam idle and behave, you can make the bigger cam do the same thing.
I would change the converter and go with a PT4000 or an FTI 4000 or a CircleD 2E 4200. That stall is garbage for that combo.
I'd probably swap the heads to the MAST 240 LS3s. Just for ***** and giggles. Even with the shitty tune it'd pick up 20HP. And then run a FAST Medium Runner LS3 intake. Rev to 7500. Enjoy 500.
Also, I would leave the cam in there. You aren't changing the cam enough for it to matter. If you can make the 237/245 cam idle and behave, you can make the bigger cam do the same thing.
I would change the converter and go with a PT4000 or an FTI 4000 or a CircleD 2E 4200. That stall is garbage for that combo.
I'd probably swap the heads to the MAST 240 LS3s. Just for ***** and giggles. Even with the shitty tune it'd pick up 20HP. And then run a FAST Medium Runner LS3 intake. Rev to 7500. Enjoy 500.
Take that 2500+$ investment in heads and put it into nitrous and beat all these "500whp" ls1s. And have a car that drives better with cash still in your pocket. Strokers want to make torque anyways. They don't need to rev to make power.
No way your getting a cam that size to drive well in an Ls1.
06-04-2019, 08:59 PM
#84
TECH Junkie
I disagree with all this, the cams aren't even close to each other, his converter is fine, his heads are fantastic.
Take that 2500+$ investment in heads and put it into nitrous and beat all these "500whp" ls1s. And have a car that drives better with cash still in your pocket. Strokers want to make torque anyways. They don't need to rev to make power.
No way your getting a cam that size to drive well in an Ls1.
Take that 2500+$ investment in heads and put it into nitrous and beat all these "500whp" ls1s. And have a car that drives better with cash still in your pocket. Strokers want to make torque anyways. They don't need to rev to make power.
No way your getting a cam that size to drive well in an Ls1.
I also think it's possible that his converter is locking at to low of mph/rpm. Causing some of his low speed issues. He should be locking the converter in 4th ONLY above 50 mph.
I run a 239/244 in my 346 and it drives amazing
06-04-2019, 09:06 PM
#85
That converter is far from fine for that setup. He should be running something around a Pt4400.
I also think it's possible that his converter is locking at to low of mph/rpm. Causing some of his low speed issues. He should be locking the converter in 4th ONLY above 50 mph.
I run a 239/244 in my 346 and it drives amazing
I also think it's possible that his converter is locking at to low of mph/rpm. Causing some of his low speed issues. He should be locking the converter in 4th ONLY above 50 mph.
I run a 239/244 in my 346 and it drives amazing
06-04-2019, 09:06 PM
#86
Are you saying RPM in a stroker motor is not good? Is that what you're saying? Because, the one thing they need is RPM. They make torque on accident. Leveling off some torque down low and extending the RPM range makes them more livable on the street. Moving to an MSD intake would help--but his combo is f'd anyway with the power it's making. I blame the tune and the valvetrain setup. It's probably something like valve float on top of everything. I'm sure this shop did a great job setting preload. And using the stock TFS springs (especially with HS rockers) is a great way to get RPM!
*sarcasm*
If you take a 383 and rev it to 7500 with the right sized cam (like the one he has) he will outrun the combo he has now by a lot. And he'd need more stall to do it. Those heads aren't fantastic, especially if they are out of the box without being touched up. I wouldn't even put them in the top 10 heads for an LS1. 2007 called and they want their heads back.
And if he doesn't want that kind of combo--if he wants a daily driver, then he needs a lot less cam. Not barely a little less. I saw a 237/245 112 cam which is 17 degrees. That's barely less than what he has (20 degrees). It will build compression a little better. But overlap is still overlap. And going from 20 to 17 isn't worth it. Not even close.
If he does some shelf grind with 10-14 degrees... I'd say meh to that. You'd need to drop down to 6 degrees to improve the drivability enough to make it docile for stock-like daily driving.
But until we see a dyno graph or a tune or anything, we are pissing in the dark on an electric fence. I would never just start ***** nilly changing things though. I would troubleshoot what you have (starting with the tune so the car can drive around at least) and then see what the dyno sheet looks like. If it nose dives at 6K... winner winner valvefloat dinner.
*sarcasm*
If you take a 383 and rev it to 7500 with the right sized cam (like the one he has) he will outrun the combo he has now by a lot. And he'd need more stall to do it. Those heads aren't fantastic, especially if they are out of the box without being touched up. I wouldn't even put them in the top 10 heads for an LS1. 2007 called and they want their heads back.
And if he doesn't want that kind of combo--if he wants a daily driver, then he needs a lot less cam. Not barely a little less. I saw a 237/245 112 cam which is 17 degrees. That's barely less than what he has (20 degrees). It will build compression a little better. But overlap is still overlap. And going from 20 to 17 isn't worth it. Not even close.
If he does some shelf grind with 10-14 degrees... I'd say meh to that. You'd need to drop down to 6 degrees to improve the drivability enough to make it docile for stock-like daily driving.
But until we see a dyno graph or a tune or anything, we are pissing in the dark on an electric fence. I would never just start ***** nilly changing things though. I would troubleshoot what you have (starting with the tune so the car can drive around at least) and then see what the dyno sheet looks like. If it nose dives at 6K... winner winner valvefloat dinner.
06-04-2019, 09:50 PM
#87
TECH Veteran
I will put the TFS heads in my top 10 for a ls1.
Back in 2010 HOT Rod mag took a bone stock 98 green Z28 car and slapped on a pair of TFS heads and a TFS... you know that top end package deal. With some BMR suapension and no weight reduction at all ro the car except for the drag type wheels the car went low 11s. Its some LS3 headed 40Xci cars on here stuck running 11s but thats none of my business.
Back in 2010 HOT Rod mag took a bone stock 98 green Z28 car and slapped on a pair of TFS heads and a TFS... you know that top end package deal. With some BMR suapension and no weight reduction at all ro the car except for the drag type wheels the car went low 11s. Its some LS3 headed 40Xci cars on here stuck running 11s but thats none of my business.
06-04-2019, 11:17 PM
#88
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
Are you saying RPM in a stroker motor is not good? Is that what you're saying? Because, the one thing they need is RPM. They make torque on accident. Leveling off some torque down low and extending the RPM range makes them more livable on the street. Moving to an MSD intake would help--but his combo is f'd anyway with the power it's making. I blame the tune and the valvetrain setup. It's probably something like valve float on top of everything. I'm sure this shop did a great job setting preload. And using the stock TFS springs (especially with HS rockers) is a great way to get RPM!
*sarcasm*
If you take a 383 and rev it to 7500 with the right sized cam (like the one he has) he will outrun the combo he has now by a lot. And he'd need more stall to do it. Those heads aren't fantastic, especially if they are out of the box without being touched up. I wouldn't even put them in the top 10 heads for an LS1. 2007 called and they want their heads back.
And if he doesn't want that kind of combo--if he wants a daily driver, then he needs a lot less cam. Not barely a little less. I saw a 237/245 112 cam which is 17 degrees. That's barely less than what he has (20 degrees). It will build compression a little better. But overlap is still overlap. And going from 20 to 17 isn't worth it. Not even close.
If he does some shelf grind with 10-14 degrees... I'd say meh to that. You'd need to drop down to 6 degrees to improve the drivability enough to make it docile for stock-like daily driving.
But until we see a dyno graph or a tune or anything, we are pissing in the dark on an electric fence. I would never just start ***** nilly changing things though. I would troubleshoot what you have (starting with the tune so the car can drive around at least) and then see what the dyno sheet looks like. If it nose dives at 6K... winner winner valvefloat dinner.
*sarcasm*
If you take a 383 and rev it to 7500 with the right sized cam (like the one he has) he will outrun the combo he has now by a lot. And he'd need more stall to do it. Those heads aren't fantastic, especially if they are out of the box without being touched up. I wouldn't even put them in the top 10 heads for an LS1. 2007 called and they want their heads back.
And if he doesn't want that kind of combo--if he wants a daily driver, then he needs a lot less cam. Not barely a little less. I saw a 237/245 112 cam which is 17 degrees. That's barely less than what he has (20 degrees). It will build compression a little better. But overlap is still overlap. And going from 20 to 17 isn't worth it. Not even close.
If he does some shelf grind with 10-14 degrees... I'd say meh to that. You'd need to drop down to 6 degrees to improve the drivability enough to make it docile for stock-like daily driving.
But until we see a dyno graph or a tune or anything, we are pissing in the dark on an electric fence. I would never just start ***** nilly changing things though. I would troubleshoot what you have (starting with the tune so the car can drive around at least) and then see what the dyno sheet looks like. If it nose dives at 6K... winner winner valvefloat dinner.
06-04-2019, 11:33 PM
#89
TECH Apprentice
It's 383 so it will make power with a small cam. With the cam he has in the 383 now the powerband is not street friendly, so a cam with less duration at .050 is the ticket. The stall can stay, the gears can stay, and so on, just go with slighlty less duration to improve streetability. Maybe your tune is off, but no doubt your current cam in the 383 is not a cam for frequent driving on the street. There is far too much back and forth in this thread just to arrive at the conclusion that you need a less aggressive cam.
06-04-2019, 11:38 PM
#90
It's 383 so it will make power with a small cam. With the cam he has in the 383 now the powerband is not street friendly, so a cam with less duration at .050 is the ticket. The stall can stay, the gears can stay, and so on, just go with slighlty less duration to improve streetability. Maybe your tune is off, but no doubt your current cam in the 383 is not a cam for frequent driving on the street. There is far too much back and forth in this thread just to arrive at the conclusion that you need a less aggressive cam.
06-05-2019, 06:41 AM
#93
Any LS engine, any basic shelf cam and springs, and a centrifugal supercharger would have this solved already. Easy to build, easy to tune, easy to drive and make sufficient power for 90+% of the cars on the road.
My wife is out dropping the kids at school in our Procharged TBSS - not a peep will be made about how it drives when she gets home.
Bigger cube and/or H/C/I builds are just begging for headaches and disappointment. My wagon is a perfect example of this - which is why it has a bottle on it now.
My wife is out dropping the kids at school in our Procharged TBSS - not a peep will be made about how it drives when she gets home.
Bigger cube and/or H/C/I builds are just begging for headaches and disappointment. My wagon is a perfect example of this - which is why it has a bottle on it now.
06-05-2019, 06:50 AM
#94
Any LS engine, any basic shelf cam and springs, and a centrifugal supercharger would have this solved already. Easy to build, easy to tune, easy to drive and make sufficient power for 90+% of the cars on the road.
My wife is out dropping the kids at school in our Procharged TBSS - not a peep will be made about how it drives when she gets home.
Bigger cube and/or H/C/I builds are just begging for headaches and disappointment. My wagon is a perfect example of this - which is why it has a bottle on it now.
My wife is out dropping the kids at school in our Procharged TBSS - not a peep will be made about how it drives when she gets home.
Bigger cube and/or H/C/I builds are just begging for headaches and disappointment. My wagon is a perfect example of this - which is why it has a bottle on it now.
06-05-2019, 12:13 PM
#97
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
The car was supercharged when I drop it off , it had an vortech v9 g trim , the car needed an engine due to one melted piston and 3 cracked ring lands , I wanted to do an h/c/I ls3 swap , but they talked me out of it , all I wanted was to make 500 rwhp n/a have a fun car that was street able ,
06-05-2019, 12:22 PM
#98
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
They didn’t charge me $8500 for the engine I built the 383 my self and put the heads together, that I bought bare from summit racing, I have roughly 8500 in just engine parts , that y when it came to picking the right camshaft for my engine combo I called Texas speed and told them what I was doing with the car they speced what they thought was I needed,
06-05-2019, 02:19 PM
#99
The car was supercharged when I drop it off , it had an vortech v9 g trim , the car needed an engine due to one melted piston and 3 cracked ring lands , I wanted to do an h/c/I ls3 swap , but they talked me out of it , all I wanted was to make 500 rwhp n/a have a fun car that was street able ,
They didn’t charge me $8500 for the engine I built the 383 my self and put the heads together, that I bought bare from summit racing, I have roughly 8500 in just engine parts , that y when it came to picking the right camshaft for my engine combo I called Texas speed and told them what I was doing with the car they speced what they thought was I needed,
06-05-2019, 03:59 PM
#100
12 Second Club
The car was supercharged when I drop it off , it had an vortech v9 g trim , the car needed an engine due to one melted piston and 3 cracked ring lands , I wanted to do an h/c/I ls3 swap , but they talked me out of it , all I wanted was to make 500 rwhp n/a have a fun car that was street able ,
You asked where your build went wrong, and there it is. You should have stayed boosted to meet your goals.