bigsapper

"...or how I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb."

Looking for a H/C recommendation. Car is a true daily driver; stop-n-go traffic, parking lot crawl, etc. I absolutely need to retain those stock behaviour manners.

Car is a 2004 Corvette LS1-A4-2.73. Current mods: 1 3/4" LG LT headers, Callaway Honker CAI and tune. 65k miles.
Refreshed & new dyno tune -- 350/370. This past spring, ran 12.64 @ 110 in some pretty good DA. 1.9 60'

Ideally I'd like to get to 11.5 but not sacrificing DD manners.

(possibility of a later upgrade to 3,42 & 2800 stall.)

-----------------------------------------------

I'm sitting on a MMS ported FAST 92 & ported LS2 TB.

I don't want to run a cam that requires more than LS6 springs (.550?). these are the cams I'm looking at...
Stock LS6 0.550 0.550 204 218 117.5
Summit Stage 2 Truck: SUM-8701 0.523 0.524 218 227 112
Summit Stage 1 Truck Hi Lift: SUM-8719 0.550 0.550 209 217 112
TSP FastFWD - Low Lift 0.550 0.550 216 224 114
Lingenfelter GT1 0.561 0.561 218 229 113

Not sure at all what to do about heads...TSP PRC 2.5 LS6 ??? I say that because I don't think a "bespoke" head (MMS 220) is called for as small a cam as I'm looking at. But I don't know.
I will definitely be running a higher static CR... 11-11.5:1

-----------------------------------------

What say ye?

wannafbody

iTrader: (2)

BTR stage 2 cam. TSP 225 heads, maybe even 237 heads. Don't be afraid of double valve springs.

bigsapper

No. Not going that big. Although Mavn's Ghost cam is tempting.

Valvetrain maintenance? That's so 70's. And I lived through it.

bigsapper

Bolt-on C5Zs are mid to low 11's. That's all I'm looking for.

Probably throw on a 10%UD when I do it.

Bspeck82

http://www.cammotion.com/camshafts/l...-218-224-16-3/

And

https://www.totalengineairflow.com/p...s2ls6-stage-1/

Bspeck82

Circle d makes a 2800-3200 stall that is barely noticable until you punch it , call them up. You're not running 11s without a converter. Get a trans cooler for good measure. Should have one even on a stock car anyways.

G Atsma

The Summit Stage 2 cam is essentially the GM Hot Cam. Some lope, but VERY streetable.

NAVYBLUE210

Heads... MMS 223 Sportsmen (Hand Finished TFS 220s as cast with custom VJ)
Cam... Cam Motion something like 222*/228* 114*+3* .560"/.550".
I would run a PAC Behive and go ~.600", leaving a lot on the table @ .550"
but certainly understand wanting to do it "my way" lol.

I have a MMS FAST 92 & LS2 TB also, was great on my bolt on LS1 in my 99 C5
(370/370) before my custom 396". It will now go to my 07 C6.

bigsapper

Any value in running back cut valves like Manley Race Flows?

Bspeck82

The lighter the valve the more potential rpm you can turn and a little weight reduction goes a long way. Ferrera claims going from standard to hollow intake valves can free up 300-500rpm. It's always a good idea to dump some coun into the valvetrain. Rockers should be upgraded with comp trunnion upgrade but the rockers themselves work very well and I wouldn't change those for this build.

Ls7colorado

iTrader: (3)

your a stall and tire change away from high 11's now, add in a small cam/tune and your golden even without touching the heads

wannafbody

iTrader: (2)

Someone here (maybe Darth) went 50K or more on double valve springs and they were still fine.

Bspeck82

Ya whether you use beehives or duals they will still have reduced service life due to the higher than OEM lobe intensity. You will need more spring to control the valve and prevent lifter pump up at higher rpms with an aftermarket cam.

bigsapper

Well, we got the rest of summer to argue about it.

Not buying anything until probably Black Friday. Or maybe buying all Summit parts and getting a package deal. They have a 2800 stall converter too.

Bspeck82

Ya...but now we have to argue all summer about why you should or should not use cheap parts from summit...this is why I took a break from ls1tech. Instead of discussing actual tech everyone wants to discuss budget sloppy builds or $200 dollar cams. Spend the money once and do it right. Poor man buys twice. Doesn't mean waste the money on over the top parts but spending it on the bottom of the barrel parts is just as bad. Just my .02 cents.

bigsapper

I thought Summit was making quality parts these days???



On a side note, I have always thought that Summit needs to build and campaign a bracket car built solely from Summit branded parts. Have a big poster board in the pits with it to show the Summit parts and the comparable name-brand parts with the cost savings.

bigsapper

And if it's any consolation, I have a $2500 GenV custom intake manifold I can't get rid of.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Don't listen to fear, hype and misinformation like this guy did or you'll leave a lot on the table for no real reason!!!

Short version,/Readers Digest version: call Geoff at EPS, Engine Power Systems and get a classic TR220 or TR224 cam on his custom lobe. Only .563 lift and way better than all of the cams you've mentioned for your goals. The TR220 cam will drive 99 percent stock with a good tune. The TR224 will drive 95 percent stock with a good tune. This is a time proven cam from back in 2001 that's ideal for your goals.

TEA S2 LS6 heads are likewise a fantastic choice for all the same reasons. TEA costs slightly more and their quality is worth the cost.




Background - I daily drove HCI car for 132,000+ miles with HCI package from 2002-2017, I know about durability, longevity and maintenance for HCI cars. I could get 60,000 miles between valve springs changes with an nasty XER lobe cam'd car. Tested the springs etc see link for data. The retainers get beat up and need replaced too after a while.

HCI TEA heads, 60,000 miles, dual 987 springs w/XER cam

The newer spring packages far superior to the old 987 dual spring sets I used from 2002 to 2017. With correct cam lobes selection and BTR platinum springs or similar its possible to go 75,000 miles or so with moderate performance use at the track with a daily driver. Of course if your at the track ever weekend, then even a stock motor should get new springs at some point. For performance valve springs are consumed just like tires and we have to think of them that way and check them and replace accordingly to avoid issues.

Fact LS engine often burn oil because the cheap factory valve seals start to deteriorate after ~30,000 miles by 60,000 oil consumption may be noticed, by 200,000 miles oil consumption may be very annoying. A lot of stock cars and trucks need valve seals as normal maintenance and that's just as involved as swapping valve springs. Many head ports use cheap factory valve seals. Insist on the blue Viton seals or similar high quality. That's not sexy but it's critical forces head aches down the road.

Swapping in a set of BTR platinum springs by a quality shop will cost about 4 hours labor. Typically, about $400 in labor and ~$300 for the springs, valve seals, retainers etc. Doing this every 50,000 miles for $700 really isn't too bad for a high performance car or truck since stock LS's often need valve seals too sometimes with similar miles.

I know from experience TEA, Total Engine Airflow ports an excellent cylinder head that will to 100,000 + miles with good quality machine work and quality parts. I ran mine 132,000 miles and they are going on another car at some point. Land Speed Cylinder Heads, Reher-Morrison and Mamo Motorsports also do very high quality work and are worth considering for your porting needs.

Suggestions for your performance goals, daily drive ability& longevity.

Yank 3200 to 3600SS Converter, and cooler - a good converter will probably get you .5 seconds.

If you must have a small cam, the old Lingenfelter GT 2-3 cam with 207/220 duration @ .050 lift -.571/.578 lift with 1.7 rocker 118.5 CL is a great cam. It can use LS6 springs per LPE. See their website for details. With a good set of TEA LS6 heads gaining ~60+ whp should be realistic. That's the other .5 gain

ATI Dampener/under drive if you like 10 percent

New lifters and trays of course.


With that said with a good tuner, you can go 216 intake and 220 exhaust and get 99 percent stock drive ability with ~ .550 lift. There's an old 1999 era XE lobe cam that works pretty well.

However, Geoff at EPS, Engine Power Systems really has the right cam for you!!! This is a perfect case for the TR220 or TR224 of old. There cams make outstanding power further small size very reasonable ~.563 lift. This is just a hair more lift than you mentioned but these old Thunder Racing cams by Geoffrey hit way above their sizexand drive very nice too with gente cam lobes for long spring life.

Regarding Summit, I have a 250,000 mile Z28, the Summit Ghost cam and Summit trunnion rockers will go in at some point. Plan to use those 132,000 mile TEA heads on the Z28 too.

TEA rocks

bigsapper

I appreciate that you got my reference.

I'm seeing a lot of great feedback on the TR220 & TR224 cams, but are they still around? http://thunderracing.com/

I don't see anything on their Facebook page since 2018.

bigsapper

The TEA heads are almost $1,000 more than the TSP PRC heads...$2,250 vs $1,400. We're into MMS territory now.