TimsLS1

Hi this is a new aftermarket timing chain for my LS1 I didn't need it so decided to do an impact test on it today. I didn't like the look of it when I purchased it so I upgraded to a Cloyes LS2 one and fitted that. I emailed Cloyes recently and they are same made from powdered metal same as stock. I plan on putting a rollermaster on soon.

https://youtu.be/TM6BZ_nF4Sk

G Atsma

The stock powdered metal ones just about live forever, so I fail to see your point.

TimsLS1

This isn't a stock one it's aftermarket but your welcome to put one of these on if you wish, it was $35 from memory for the whole set.

My point is they don't need to have much impact resistance and all stock powdered metal ones don't have impact resistance, but there are plenty on here who would not run a stock one on a cammed engine as the quality of the build as well as the chain strength is not made for anything other than stock power levels and rpm.

It will help some decide if they want to use stock gear or not when upgrading a cam. It helped me decide. There is absolutely no way I will be fitting something so fragile as this in my engine.

G Atsma

The only thing a timing set "sees" is the extra load a stiffer set of springs puts on the cam lobes, and even in a 700HP engine the LS2 timing sprockets with a good chain will last quite a long time. Anyone spending $35 for a timing set is asking for trouble. Stock ones are more. Must have been an eBay special.

patSS/00

iTrader: (6)

If you still have an OE one, would be entertaining to see the same precision testing on that.

TimsLS1

Thanks, I found it entertaining.
I'm doing a cam change soon and am debating on removing my new Cloyes C-3320 stock replacement timing to replace with my new Rollermaster dual. I'm just not sure if there is any benefit as Ill be running a .545 lift 226/230, 112 LSA cam.
A Google search showed a number of occasions when stock LS2 chains broke and also dual billet rollermasters as well. Although it doesn't appear to be a common occurence.
I don't think my Cloyes C-3320 is a LS2 timing gear either but it had a much thicker chain than the one that came with the sprocket in the video.

patSS/00

iTrader: (6)

To reduce chances of the chain breaking, you could install a chain dampener, but only for single chains. Might require an adapter bracket depending on your block.

TimsLS1

Thanks yes I have one of those installed aready, wouldnt I be able to use this if I fitted my dual row timing set?
Regards Tim

patSS/00

iTrader: (6)

Yeah I think I was wrong about that. I've got a dampener I haven't installed yet, looked at it again and seems plenty wide enough for a double chain, but then I don't have a chain to compare against. There are probably some old posts on that subject.

01CamaroSSTx

iTrader: (3)

There built to take a beating but not that kind of beating but I guess you could call that putting the hammer to it.

TimsLS1

Yes that's for sure, but one can imagine the kind of stress it would be under spinning at 6500 in this scenario below. This is an LS1 dual roller getting tighter and looser as it turns around it's no wonder after seeing this, that they occasionally break.
Tim

01CamaroSSTx

iTrader: (3)

I've never heard of an LS1 cam sprocket breaking. I'm reusing mine with a Katech C5R chain on an LS370 build that I plan to spin to about 6800 and it does not have that much play. It's got me thinking there's been too much align honing done to the mains and as a result you have a very loose chain.

01CamaroSSTx

iTrader: (3)

https://www.onallcylinders.com/2017/...-timing-chain/

G Atsma

An "impact test" on a cam sprocket is a total waste of time. Cam drives never really see any form of "impact". Drive torque increases due to stiffer springs, yes, but NO impacts. That "test" proved absolutely nothing.

stockA4

Your talking about the summit 8714

I'm running that cam in my LS1, the ONLY thing I changed was the cam and springs. I left the stock chain, gear, everything. I'm not worried at all and I shift mine at 6800

Che70velle

iTrader: (6)

While not being the most scientific metallurgical testing I’ve ever seen, he does show us just how fragile the gear is. I was changing the oil on a pretty hot sbc 15 years ago or so, with a solid roller camshaft, and watched a tooth off of my cam gear fall into the oil bucket. Sbc timing sets see much more force due to the cam turning the oil pump and the dizzy, but never the less...If the LS gear shatters this easily, so will the teeth on the gear. Not a big deal on a run-of-the-mill daily driver hydraulic build. I’m a big believer in billet timing sets. No way I’m running a GM gear with dual springs.
Maybe Darth will pop in here. He gets paid to examine make-ups of metals.

LLLosingit

iTrader: (4)

I don't think hitting a gear and seeing shatter is going to tell you anything about how it will perform. A soft metal won't shatter but it will wear faster, A hard steel will shatter but have good wear characteristics. Plus you have the angle of the impact that differs from the force that will be applied when used. A good example is a camshaft, You drop one flat and they will shatter quite easily but they don't typically break while being used and have some of the best wear resistance of any part in an engine.

G Atsma

^^^^^^This. ^^^^^^^^
There is "impact testing" and then there is real world wear and tear. The two aren't even close. Dropping a cam is the same thing. It shatters, as above, but that is not a real-world situation and neither is "impacting" a cam sprocket.

Che70velle

iTrader: (6)

I’m certainly not going to argue with either of you. I thought the whole thing was quite humorous. All I said was I’ve seen timing gear teeth break off, so I like the billet sets.

TimsLS1

I agree with this but somewhere if the cam gear is is too brittle there is too much of a compromise and I'm not saying this was reached with that cam gear as I just don't know, but my guess is it is to brittle for non stock applications. It would be possible to use a material with even greater wear resistance and even more brittle but eventually the brittleness becomes a factor. Glass would be a harder material than this but no one is going to make timing gear from glass. I would argue there is some impact on the teeth especially if the chain becomes loose