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If you know someone thats good at welding aluminum they may be able to weld that ear back on with the motor in the car, then you could helicoil or just clean the threads with a chaser and bolt the starter back on.
I've only seen that ear break off a few times over the last 20 years and I suspect it's from the starter bolts not being quite tight enough and the starter putting extra/uneven pressure on that ear, or maybe the inner bolt coming out or breaking and putting full pressure on that outer ear. Don't know if that helps any, just thinking out loud over here.
Cage looks good btw
I have a couple buddies that are a good bit better with aluminum welding than myself, see if I can get them to buzz this back together and I'll put together something to brace it further. There is a different style starter to replace the stock one that has better mounting, from what I gathered the other side ear breaks off the starter then this lets go after. New style starters have a full long bolt and boss that doesn't break... Hell if I can get a buddy to weld a starter to the block will run it! LOL
I've messed with quite a few ls's but i've never busted a block like that on the starter mount.
The australian cars all came with the starter that uses 2 long bolts (same length bolts).. and i have broken the ear off the weaker side of the starter once, from over tightening the bolt on install, but i never had an engine block itself break like that.
I have always tightened the starter bolts probably over torque, at least the one side, because i know that if the starter bolts get loose, it'll probably take the block with it like yours did on start up. So i'd rather risk potentially breaking a cheap starter motor housing on install (like i have done) rather than having not enough torque on the bolts and having the starter bolts vibrate loose after time.
This style starter below is what we have in australia, and i have broken the left hand side ear off the starter (left hand side as you see it below) because as you can see that side of the housing is cut away and it's not solid up all the way between the entire length of the bolt, like the right hand side is, so if you go too tight that ear under the bolt head can break.
So if you get one of these starters that use the 2 long bolts, don't go too tight on that hollow side of the starter, as it can crack the ear off, but you CAN and should go very tight on the other side bolt, which will reduce the risk of the starter ever coming loose. a
Once you repair that tab it may not be as strong as it once was, maybe get a stud for the inner bolt so you can have max strength there doing all the holding of the starter and the outer bolt just be for minor support? Or I wonder if ARP makes starter bolts..
I don't know what caused your problem but if either or both bolts were loose it would put a ton of pressure on that tab and break it. I've seen that exact scenario play out in other areas when bolts were loose.
Che70velle, I've never seen the starter tab break from a hydrolock on a LS or small block, just rods out the side of the block, is that a fairly common thing for a small block or LS (tab to break off if hydrolocked)?
Once you repair that tab it may not be as strong as it once was, maybe get a stud for the inner bolt so you can have max strength there doing all the holding of the starter and the outer bolt just be for minor support? Or I wonder if ARP makes starter bolts..
I don't know what caused your problem but if either or both bolts were loose it would put a ton of pressure on that tab and break it. I've seen that exact scenario play out in other areas when bolts were loose.
Che70velle, I've never seen the starter tab break from a hydrolock on a LS or small block, just rods out the side of the block, is that a fairly common thing for a small block or LS (tab to break off if hydrolocked)?
If the engine is built with good parts internally, a hydro lock will do this. I built a SBC in 05’ for Pensacola Speedway. (asphalt super late model) It was a cheater engine (gasp!!) with 3.75 crank, so a 383. Had 15;1 compression and really good stuff in it. Dry sump, etc and we were gonna turn it 8500 rpm. Anyhoo, Pensacola never happened for me and the engine sat in the shop for a couple years. I ended up selling it to a neighbor and we put it in his 68 camaro with a glide and he drag raced it. I went on vacation as soon as we got it on the car, but not fired yet (brand new unfired engine) so I told him I’d be back in a week and please wait on me. He declined. The dizzy was roughed in at 34 degrees advanced timing, and he had a timing light with a **** on it...yeah...why did those ever get made?...and you know how this goes. He turned the dizzy until the car shut off. He guessed he was half way according to how far the advance moved. So he visually turned the dizzy til he thought he was at 34 degrees. He was pretty close to 68 degrees advanced at this point, and they tried to start it. It busted the starter off the car. They went to local parts store and bought another one. Tried to start it, same thing, broke the starter in half. So he calls me. I asked him to run me through exactly what the two nooooobs had done...father and son duo. I was two days from being home. Long story, a tad shorter...lol...the engine lifted the heads and all but knocked the rod bearings out of it....and never ran until I got home and pulled the timing out of it. After the rebuild, it was a missle. They drove that car everywhere around here and beat the crap out of it.
I gave y’all the longish version there, because if I had said that I’d seen a sbc with 15:1 compression kick the starter off, it would not register. I’ve also seen a hydro lock situation do the same with an iron block LS. Injector failure must have dripped a half pint of gas into a cylinder at DBC and it did the same thing.
ARP does make starter bolts. I have a set on my 434.
If the engine is built with good parts internally, a hydro lock will do this. I built a SBC in 05’ for Pensacola Speedway. (asphalt super late model) It was a cheater engine (gasp!!) with 3.75 crank, so a 383. Had 15;1 compression and really good stuff in it. Dry sump, etc and we were gonna turn it 8500 rpm. Anyhoo, Pensacola never happened for me and the engine sat in the shop for a couple years. I ended up selling it to a neighbor and we put it in his 68 camaro with a glide and he drag raced it. I went on vacation as soon as we got it on the car, but not fired yet (brand new unfired engine) so I told him I’d be back in a week and please wait on me. He declined. The dizzy was roughed in at 34 degrees advanced timing, and he had a timing light with a **** on it...yeah...why did those ever get made?...and you know how this goes. He turned the dizzy until the car shut off. He guessed he was half way according to how far the advance moved. So he visually turned the dizzy til he thought he was at 34 degrees. He was pretty close to 68 degrees advanced at this point, and they tried to start it. It busted the starter off the car. They went to local parts store and bought another one. Tried to start it, same thing, broke the starter in half. So he calls me. I asked him to run me through exactly what the two nooooobs had done...father and son duo. I was two days from being home. Long story, a tad shorter...lol...the engine lifted the heads and all but knocked the rod bearings out of it....and never ran until I got home and pulled the timing out of it. After the rebuild, it was a missle. They drove that car everywhere around here and beat the crap out of it.
I gave y’all the longish version there, because if I had said that I’d seen a sbc with 15:1 compression kick the starter off, it would not register. I’ve also seen a hydro lock situation do the same with an iron block LS. Injector failure must have dripped a half pint of gas into a cylinder at DBC and it did the same thing.
ARP does make starter bolts. I have a set on my 434.
Well speaking for myself I appreciate the detailed write up. That's pretty wild but it sounds like they had a lot working against them there (themselves lol).
Was the ve while cranking table ever adjusted? My car started much easier after i adjusted that.
Honestly not sure I assume so... The car has never started hard, and I only have a small baby battery in it that's usually half dead. Motor rolled over twice and then let go. Maybe when the motor was about to fire it let go but either way didn't seem to struggle at all to start cranking.
Honestly not sure I assume so... The car has never started hard, and I only have a small baby battery in it that's usually half dead. Motor rolled over twice and then let go. Maybe when the motor was about to fire it let go but either way didn't seem to struggle at all to start cranking.
Well if you've ever had a distributor cranked up too much you know the sound, super similar to a dead battery it'll drag or just dead stop the starter. If it sounded like it was spinning over fine it wouldn't be likely it was due to timing or tune. Especially if it's been fine for all this time. It should be an issue every time if it were a tune issue.
Yep with my circle tracks stuff I've run locked out distributors in the past, they get a bit cranky to start. My current motor in the dirt car is a 13ish to 1 sbc, with the light weight trans in there normally start it by rolling the motor over then switching the ignition on. Helps the starter and the trans from taking too much abuse. But currently leading points in that so that's taking priority over the drag/street car, also working on having another shop built so I don't have to play musical cars with what I'm working on.... It would be nice to be able to take a break at some point LOL
Hey guys wanted to give a little update after a lengthy absence, new buildings up and running got the car back up and running, turns out the reason for knocking the starter off was cylinder 6 had filled with water. Luckily have a few good buddies who have seen about everything LS1 related had run into this problem before with a fast intake for some reason water drips off the cowl and finds it's way into the cylinder. Not sure if through the injector or what but I was about to start tearing the motor down when my buddy said he had run into the same exact issue with a similar set up. So I built a bracket off the trans bolts, bolted the starter in pulled plugs spun the motor over put plugs back in and we were running. Big sigh of relief!
Also got my hands on a BMR extreme antiroll bar and made it to the track last weekend. Even with a full size battery, the new roll cage and nearly a full tank of fuel was able to make my best pass to date. Every pass but one was in the 6s when a street tire car did a burn out on the line before me and I spun to a 7.0. I'm excited to get to the 1/4 mile and see what it does it's usually almost a tenth quicker than my local 1/8th mile track.
Really happy to be able to get the car going in the right direction again after it was fighting me.
08-10-2020, 08:52 PM
