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LOL So true! We've timed a lot of no time/grudge cars and most aren't nearly as fast as they say they are.
I ran an LS9 previously and the results were underwhelming. Someone did a test between stock cams and a stage 2 turbo cam, gained 100+hp on low boost (under 15 psi) and low rpm (under 7000). Turbo cam had less backpressure and boost actually dropped a little and still made more power.
I'd go the other way, add another 35% ethanol! Ethanol fuels often help a turbo spool faster and you can run more timing, plus if planned for ahead of time can run more compression. Not sure why people hate on ethanol fuels? Even E50 works great for street cars, not as big an impact on MPG as E85 but almost all the rewards.
Consistent ethanol quantity is the main issue, plus it has the same issue any other fuel does. You can get crappy fuel. And with E it ca happen more often. Plus the whole hygroscopic thing and making sure to not let it set. From tests ive seen anything less than e60 is a waste of time. Most people run ethanol way too rich also which is why the turbos light off faster. With a fuel that sucks for mpg why they raping it harder with such a rich condition? Guys in the know run a gas scale and make considerably more power while still being safe. More bang for the buck from ethanol fuel is worth it although i wouldnt try gas scale with e50 or 60.
All of that complicates matter well more than just putting some 93 pump in and running it.
Consistent ethanol quantity is the main issue, plus it has the same issue any other fuel does. You can get crappy fuel. And with E it ca happen more often. Plus the whole hygroscopic thing and making sure to not let it set. From tests ive seen anything less than e60 is a waste of time. Most people run ethanol way too rich also which is why the turbos light off faster. With a fuel that sucks for mpg why they raping it harder with such a rich condition? Guys in the know run a gas scale and make considerably more power while still being safe. More bang for the buck from ethanol fuel is worth it although i wouldnt try gas scale with e50 or 60.
All of that complicates matter well more than just putting some 93 pump in and running it.
We've been running E for over 10 years and it has never varied more then a few percent from 85 from our local stations. Plus with a flex fuel sensor ethanol percentage is really a non issue. I've let E sit all winter, car fired right up, went right out and gave it full send, A/F was on point and not one issue. I would agree not letting it sit is best case, but so far no issues if it sits a month or two during some downtime.
Most everyone tunes off lambda and so it doesn't matter if you use a gas scale, 11.5:1 on gas scale is still .78 lambda which is 7.6:1 on E85. None of those numbers add any power it's just ease of use to the person behind the keyboard. Most guys that just put 93 pump in the car and run it are pretty slow. The very little hassle required to run ethanol is rewarded by being able to run hundreds more horsepower reliably. E85 is also a cheaper fuel at close to $1 cheaper a gallon then 93, sometimes more. Who really cares if you burn a little more of it when fillups are substantially cheaper.
As far as tests go E50 gives you the relatively the same octane and knock prevention as E85, its certainly worth it in most street cars.
like the SS can’t afford that. I already have a 2019 Silverado note and a 2019 $56k RV note. So it would have to be even swap if I sell the gto. I don’t see getting much $$$ for it. I did consider getting a 2011ish camaro SS like I used to have. But have you seen how tight they are under the hood for a turbo? Omg.
not a fan of the G8. I think it looks like a square wedge from the side because the Smaller wheel well opening in the rear. The front does look killer tho.
Ah, the wedge thing. I remember now, i think i asked you that before on the other forum.
We've been running E for over 10 years and it has never varied more then a few percent from 85 from our local stations. Plus with a flex fuel sensor ethanol percentage is really a non issue. I've let E sit all winter, car fired right up, went right out and gave it full send, A/F was on point and not one issue. I would agree not letting it sit is best case, but so far no issues if it sits a month or two during some downtime.
Most everyone tunes off lambda and so it doesn't matter if you use a gas scale, 11.5:1 on gas scale is still .78 lambda which is 7.6:1 on E85. None of those numbers add any power it's just ease of use to the person behind the keyboard. Most guys that just put 93 pump in the car and run it are pretty slow. The very little hassle required to run ethanol is rewarded by being able to run hundreds more horsepower reliably. E85 is also a cheaper fuel at close to $1 cheaper a gallon then 93, sometimes more. Who really cares if you burn a little more of it when fillups are substantially cheaper.
As far as tests go E50 gives you the relatively the same octane and knock prevention as E85, its certainly worth it in most street cars.
Tuning E85 on a n/a application that isn't high compression is easy mode. From what i've gathered from others who have ran it, it's got a very wide margin for max power in terms of both AFR and timing. Not worth a ton unless bewst or HCR, but it still adds midrange.
We've been running E for over 10 years and it has never varied more then a few percent from 85 from our local stations. Plus with a flex fuel sensor ethanol percentage is really a non issue. I've let E sit all winter, car fired right up, went right out and gave it full send, A/F was on point and not one issue. I would agree not letting it sit is best case, but so far no issues if it sits a month or two during some downtime.
Most everyone tunes off lambda and so it doesn't matter if you use a gas scale, 11.5:1 on gas scale is still .78 lambda which is 7.6:1 on E85. None of those numbers add any power it's just ease of use to the person behind the keyboard. Most guys that just put 93 pump in the car and run it are pretty slow. The very little hassle required to run ethanol is rewarded by being able to run hundreds more horsepower reliably. E85 is also a cheaper fuel at close to $1 cheaper a gallon then 93, sometimes more. Who really cares if you burn a little more of it when fillups are substantially cheaper.
As far as tests go E50 gives you the relatively the same octane and knock prevention as E85, its certainly worth it in most street cars.
Ive seen local guys and multiple posts on fb innthe past few months show a difference of over 10pts total. And not always in the plus side.
As in 75% to 90% and if you dont think theyll give you a different outcome based off MON and RON then maybe you should try them and see.
The difference isnt only in octane but also BTU. And the base fuel itself. Numbers on paper mean much less than real life.
Ive seen local guys and multiple posts on fb innthe past few months show a difference of over 10pts total. And not always in the plus side.
As in 75% to 90% and if you dont think theyll give you a different outcome based off MON and RON then maybe you should try them and see.
The difference isnt only in octane but also BTU. And the base fuel itself. Numbers on paper mean much less than real life.
I'm not on FB nor would I use anyone's post there to influence tuning a car. I'm pretty sure the whole world is aware that E85 has a lower BTU rating then gas by ~30%.
In real life I've run everything from 50-93% on both low and high compression engines, low and high boost. Yet again, this is why having a flex fuel sensor comes into play. You can easily scale A/F ratio and timing to 0-100% of ethanol content without damaging anything. That said even 50% E allows more boost and timing without knock then pump 93, for most people an 11:1 engine on 20lbs is plenty for a street car that still gets decent MPG. For guys that want to push it further then yes we run pump E85 all the time on 30+ lbs without issue. If you want to get saucy then you can run oxygenated E85 but at an increased cost.
How many areas still dont have e85? And how many are regulated to 91 max?
Neither are available everywhere at any time.
Try to find e50 at a pump.
This is for the general masses, not someone that is used to it.
The simple difference between summer and winter blends can cause issues also and that has nothing to do with ethanol content there.
How many areas still dont have e85? And how many are regulated to 91 max?
Neither are available everywhere at any time.
Try to find e50 at a pump.
This is for the general masses, not someone that is used to it.
The simple difference between summer and winter blends can cause issues also and that has nothing to do with ethanol content there.
They ship e85 pretty much anywhere, so very few places are truly without it. Maybe Cali is 91 only? Pretty much whole mid west and east coast have E85.
Any pump that sells E85 can be E50, its called half a tank of E85 and half 93 lol Tons of people do that, even guys not into cars. Im actually shocked how many normal cars are always at the E85 pumps. Lots of OEM flex fuel vehicles out there!
Again you apparently have no clue how a stock ECM utilizes a flex fuel sensor if you think summer and winter blends matter. The ECM adjusts to whatever you put in the tank, thats the beauty of it percent doesnt matter! More performance when you can run higher content but no damage when you cant.
Either way I dont care if you love pump gas, just means you’ll get gapped lol
How many areas still dont have e85? And how many are regulated to 91 max?
Neither are available everywhere at any time.
Try to find e50 at a pump.
This is for the general masses, not someone that is used to it.
The simple difference between summer and winter blends can cause issues also and that has nothing to do with ethanol content there.
I have rarely, if ever, seen E85 here in Cali. 87 & 91 is about it on octane.
In Western PA very few stations have E85, Sheetz has some stations that carry E15 and E85. We are lucky to have 93 at almost all stations. Sunoco is the only one local that carries the mid grade 91.
If you filled half with E15 and half with E85 would that make E100?
In Western PA very few stations have E85, Sheetz has some stations that carry E15 and E85. We are lucky to have 93 at almost all stations. Sunoco is the only one local that carries the mid grade 91.
If you filled half with E15 and half with E85 would that make E100?
I have rarely, if ever, seen E85 here in Cali. 87 & 91 is about it on octane.
No 93 or E is reason enough not to live there. Add the street and even race track sound ordinances and its a wrap.
Originally Posted by wannafbody
In Western PA very few stations have E85, Sheetz has some stations that carry E15 and E85. We are lucky to have 93 at almost all stations. Sunoco is the only one local that carries the mid grade 91.
If you filled half with E15 and half with E85 would that make E100?
Wrong direction on the math lol When I cruised up in PA I stopped in northern/western MD to top off. Same with going to Ocean City theres a station right before the bridge. Takes some planning but can usually find a station, same with diesel in some places.
Just depends if each person thinks its worth it to their particular setup. Some people pay for $15+ gal C16, others would rather pay $2 gal for E85, different strokes for different folks. Some guys run M1 in addition to 93 which I did for awhile, but got to the point 3 gallons of M1 didn't last 30 minutes of backroads driving which wasnt worth ~$9 a gal(93+M1 combined).
Shipping fuel? In some states not only can you not do that without a license of some sort but it can also takes lots of paperwork.
I understand you're trying to back up your veiws but that is hardly realistic exactly like what i gave instances of and know about the different regions and state laws.
There are quite a few places in Iowa that dont have any ethanol besides the std E10 and that basically all we are known for is corn.
Id rather be realistic for all our customers.
People always try to push e85 on someone even when it’s not easily obtainable. Sorry, if I can’t easily get something, I’m absolutely most definitely not going to build something that relies on it. That’s dumb, and trying to convince people they need to do what you do is dumb too. If I had a race car then I would consider it. I don’t have a race car. I don’t want to be dependent on something that’s screwed around here. And buying it by the drum or ordering it? Your juicing right? Lmao.
People always try to push e85 on someone even when it’s not easily obtainable. Sorry, if I can’t easily get something, I’m absolutely most definitely not going to build something that relies on it. That’s dumb, and trying to convince people they need to do what you do is dumb too. If I had a race car then I would consider it. I don’t have a race car. I don’t want to be dependent on something that’s screwed around here. And buying it by the drum or ordering it? Your juicing right? Lmao.
Same here. I am 20 miles away from any E85 supply. And on a big cube motor, I'd lose three gallons just driving round trip to the gas station... but that's the advise I get most often.
Have you thought maybe to just order boostane? 1-oz per gallon would be more than enough, gets to to 98, and would be easier on you than about anything else you could try. I hated being stuck with 91 in AZ. in SC, with 93 everywhere, i didn't realize how big a difference it makes, but those two AKI points really make a difference.
Edit -- back to your cam question, i reread the entire thread, and i agree WS6Store cam is a pretty good match. Advance wasn't listed, and you may want to install on a 110-112 centerline to help with the torque when the turbo is idle.
Last edited by Darth_V8r; Dec 17, 2019 at 08:22 AM.
Same here. I am 20 miles away from any E85 supply. And on a big cube motor, I'd lose three gallons just driving round trip to the gas station... but that's the advise I get most often.
Have you thought maybe to just order boostane? 1-oz per gallon would be more than enough, gets to to 98, and would be easier on you than about anything else you could try. I hated being stuck with 91 in AZ. in SC, with 93 everywhere, i didn't realize how big a difference it makes, but those two AKI points really make a difference.
Edit -- back to your cam question, i reread the entire thread, and i agree WS6Store cam is a pretty good match. Advance wasn't listed, and you may want to install on a 110-112 centerline to help with the torque when the turbo is idle.
Boostane played a part in toasting his motor. He should be looking at WMI instead.
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