New AFR Budget LS Head
12-30-2019, 11:52 AM
#61
Powell doesn't market them very much, but there is at least one member here that made 1300+ HP on them.
The point it, don't drool too much over these new heads because they are "AFR". AFR is just buying them in bulk, rebranding them, and selling them. If you're expecting typical AFR quality, these won't be it.
Google them, look at the pictures. Solid deck below the intake ports (dead giveaway), and that combustion chamber shape. Hop on alibaba and find them, or get on ebay and find them from Powell ready to go.
The china heads (besides Speedmaster, they are different) that pop up on here from time to time over the last decade from someone curious about them after finding them on ebay.... same heads.
The point it, don't drool too much over these new heads because they are "AFR". AFR is just buying them in bulk, rebranding them, and selling them. If you're expecting typical AFR quality, these won't be it.
Google them, look at the pictures. Solid deck below the intake ports (dead giveaway), and that combustion chamber shape. Hop on alibaba and find them, or get on ebay and find them from Powell ready to go.
The china heads (besides Speedmaster, they are different) that pop up on here from time to time over the last decade from someone curious about them after finding them on ebay.... same heads.
12-30-2019, 12:09 PM
#62
Powell doesn't market them very much, but there is at least one member here that made 1300+ HP on them.
The point it, don't drool too much over these new heads because they are "AFR". AFR is just buying them in bulk, rebranding them, and selling them. If you're expecting typical AFR quality, these won't be it.
Google them, look at the pictures. Solid deck below the intake ports (dead giveaway), and that combustion chamber shape. Hop on alibaba and find them, or get on ebay and find them from Powell ready to go.
The china heads (besides Speedmaster, they are different) that pop up on here from time to time over the last decade from someone curious about them after finding them on ebay.... same heads.
The point it, don't drool too much over these new heads because they are "AFR". AFR is just buying them in bulk, rebranding them, and selling them. If you're expecting typical AFR quality, these won't be it.
Google them, look at the pictures. Solid deck below the intake ports (dead giveaway), and that combustion chamber shape. Hop on alibaba and find them, or get on ebay and find them from Powell ready to go.
The china heads (besides Speedmaster, they are different) that pop up on here from time to time over the last decade from someone curious about them after finding them on ebay.... same heads.
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G Atsma (12-30-2019)
12-30-2019, 12:20 PM
#64
TECH Senior Member
For the price, a lower level of perceived quality is expected, but AFR has a rep to protect, so theses heads will NOT be junk.
ONE member making 1300HP is not setting the world afire.
You want to downplay this as "nothing new, keep walking". Before now, it has been undiscovered talent, known to very few. It just got discovered!
And with AFR pushing it, it should sell IF it's good.
ONE member making 1300HP is not setting the world afire.
You want to downplay this as "nothing new, keep walking". Before now, it has been undiscovered talent, known to very few. It just got discovered!
And with AFR pushing it, it should sell IF it's good.
12-30-2019, 12:29 PM
#65
AFR hasn't released any info, but it doesn't matter. After having gone through the china heads thoroughly, measuring chamber and port size/shape, seeing the marks inside the ports, seeing the deck surface, and then seeing all of the same stuff 100% identical at PRI this year, they're the same casting.
The solid deck below the intake ports was the first major giveaway, especially since no other AFR head has this. 100% identical chamber shape was another. Casting marks in the ports another. Price point for an aftermarket casting means they are obviously chinese castings. This many stars don't align by mistake.
The solid deck below the intake ports was the first major giveaway, especially since no other AFR head has this. 100% identical chamber shape was another. Casting marks in the ports another. Price point for an aftermarket casting means they are obviously chinese castings. This many stars don't align by mistake.
12-30-2019, 12:39 PM
#67
That's like saying Holley or Summit or even FITech "discovered" the china fabricated intakes because they weren't really mainstream until they were rebranded.
Last edited by AwesomeAuto; 12-30-2019 at 12:45 PM.
12-30-2019, 12:55 PM
#68
AFR hasn't released any info, but it doesn't matter. After having gone through the china heads thoroughly, measuring chamber and port size/shape, seeing the marks inside the ports, seeing the deck surface, and then seeing all of the same stuff 100% identical at PRI this year, they're the same casting.
The solid deck below the intake ports was the first major giveaway, especially since no other AFR head has this. 100% identical chamber shape was another. Casting marks in the ports another. Price point for an aftermarket casting means they are obviously chinese castings. This many stars don't align by mistake.
The solid deck below the intake ports was the first major giveaway, especially since no other AFR head has this. 100% identical chamber shape was another. Casting marks in the ports another. Price point for an aftermarket casting means they are obviously chinese castings. This many stars don't align by mistake.
I have a questions for you, Since you're so knowledgeable and all...… What is the screen screen name you usually post under? Seems odd that someone as knowledgeable as you just joined this month and the only posts you have are on this topic? AFR going to cut into your business when they release these heads?
12-30-2019, 12:58 PM
#69
Even if they are the same castings it does not mean they are the same head, They could use better raw material, Better Machine work, Have better components.
I have a questions for you, Since you're so knowledgeable and all...… What is the screen screen name you usually post under? Seems odd that someone as knowledgeable as you just joined this month and the only posts you have are on this topic? AFR going to cut into your business when they release these heads?
I have a questions for you, Since you're so knowledgeable and all...… What is the screen screen name you usually post under? Seems odd that someone as knowledgeable as you just joined this month and the only posts you have are on this topic? AFR going to cut into your business when they release these heads?
And no, I don't sell anything. No losses here.
12-30-2019, 01:09 PM
#72
Regardless of the origin of the casting many companies start with someone elses raw product and put their name on the final product. Being from China and poor quality don't go hand in hand like it used to, People may not like it and many companies try to hide it but China makes many of the parts you buy everyday and they don't have to say they were made in China unless a majority of it's parts were manufactured there.
12-30-2019, 01:25 PM
#73
Interesting info.
I googled Powell LS heads and led me back to an LSTech thread that I commented on. Post died at that point, they call me the "Thread Killer". :-)
I doubt AFR will admit anything, just have to wait and see when they come out.
What are the valve sizes? If the same as 243/799 I'd assume they will work on a 5.3.
I'm not sure if 2.02/1.60 will clear the bore. I haven't done the math.
FWIW, the chamber on the 243/799 at it's widest point (across the valves) is approx. 3.9". So on a 5.3 the chamber overhangs the bore.
Was going to say, the Chinese know how to cast. Odds are good that they have better equip than we do.
Ron
I googled Powell LS heads and led me back to an LSTech thread that I commented on. Post died at that point, they call me the "Thread Killer". :-)
I doubt AFR will admit anything, just have to wait and see when they come out.
What are the valve sizes? If the same as 243/799 I'd assume they will work on a 5.3.
I'm not sure if 2.02/1.60 will clear the bore. I haven't done the math.
FWIW, the chamber on the 243/799 at it's widest point (across the valves) is approx. 3.9". So on a 5.3 the chamber overhangs the bore.
Was going to say, the Chinese know how to cast. Odds are good that they have better equip than we do.
Ron
12-30-2019, 02:11 PM
#74
10 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
On a cast head someone still has to machine the gasket surfaces, install seats, valves, etc correctly. Even if the flow numbers are the same and it is a Chinese casting as soon as AFR puts their name on it then it adds credibility that it passed stricter quality controls and correct assembly. I've seen this in many different markets not just car parts, many parts are indeed made in the same place, but not necessarily being of the same quality.
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G Atsma (12-30-2019)
12-30-2019, 02:39 PM
#75
On a cast head someone still has to machine the gasket surfaces, install seats, valves, etc correctly. Even if the flow numbers are the same and it is a Chinese casting as soon as AFR puts their name on it then it adds credibility that it passed stricter quality controls and correct assembly. I've seen this in many different markets not just car parts, many parts are indeed made in the same place, but not necessarily being of the same quality.
Seats I cannot be sure about since valves were installed. so I couldn't get the most detailed look.
It looks like they DID go over the deck surface. It looks notably better than the out-of-box china heads.
12-30-2019, 03:04 PM
#76
On a cast head someone still has to machine the gasket surfaces, install seats, valves, etc correctly. Even if the flow numbers are the same and it is a Chinese casting as soon as AFR puts their name on it then it adds credibility that it passed stricter quality controls and correct assembly. I've seen this in many different markets not just car parts, many parts are indeed made in the same place, but not necessarily being of the same quality.
12-30-2019, 03:12 PM
#77
10 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
Those are all assumptions. And let's not forget as soon as "AFR" us stamped on it it also adds to the price. Just like you've seen it in other markets, I've seen it where it's literally the same product but rebadged for much more money. Too early to tell 1 way or the other.
12-30-2019, 03:20 PM
#78
When they come up on ebay, they're half the price as AFR will be asking. Itll all boil down to who offers what valvetrain for what price.