Think a Lifter went, now what?
09-06-2020, 09:08 AM
#1
Think a Lifter went, now what? Just got my 1974 C10 junkyard turbo build to where I wanted it and last night I think I lost a lifter while cruising. Was able to nurse it home and will start digging in today and tomorrow.
This is my first LSx build so I figured I'd ask for a few tips in terms of diagnosing the problem and where to head next.
The engine is a 4.8 with a elgin cam (585/585, 228/230, 112) , 1218 pac springs, BTR Trunnions, sd80 inj, and a on3 76/65 turbo.
I have always planned to rebuild the engine at some point and used the junkyard engine as a learning tool. I knew something like this was going to happen eventually but I was hoping I'd get a little more out of it before I upgraded.
The options I have are:
1) fix what broke,
2) crate long block,
3) rebuild what I have
Option 1 is attractive I think because of timing and cost, thinking I can get it done in a week and I assume what I buy can be swapped over to the next version of what I do with the engine. Guessing I'm looking at a cam too and as I have my tune where I like it I might just replace the cam with the same cam. If I want an upgrade later I can always replace it.
Anything I buy I'd re-use in option 2 or 3 assuming I didn't f those parts up next time I have a failure.
Here is my question, assuming this is a lifter what else should I replace? I think the cam as the lobe is probably wiped out, what about pushrods, trays, etc? Just looking for a few tips as I start digging it. And is there a better way to diag what is wrong, I figured just pulling the valve covers and checking the rockers/play would tell me enough of the story, probably check the bores too with a scope just in case.
ALSO, should I leave the engine in the truck or yank it out? Not opposed to leaning into the engine bay but figured I'd ask. I know I have to remove the heads and I don't consider that to be a big deal, just tedious.
Any help would be appreciated!
This is my first LSx build so I figured I'd ask for a few tips in terms of diagnosing the problem and where to head next.
The engine is a 4.8 with a elgin cam (585/585, 228/230, 112) , 1218 pac springs, BTR Trunnions, sd80 inj, and a on3 76/65 turbo.
I have always planned to rebuild the engine at some point and used the junkyard engine as a learning tool. I knew something like this was going to happen eventually but I was hoping I'd get a little more out of it before I upgraded.
The options I have are:
1) fix what broke,
2) crate long block,
3) rebuild what I have
Option 1 is attractive I think because of timing and cost, thinking I can get it done in a week and I assume what I buy can be swapped over to the next version of what I do with the engine. Guessing I'm looking at a cam too and as I have my tune where I like it I might just replace the cam with the same cam. If I want an upgrade later I can always replace it.
Anything I buy I'd re-use in option 2 or 3 assuming I didn't f those parts up next time I have a failure.
Here is my question, assuming this is a lifter what else should I replace? I think the cam as the lobe is probably wiped out, what about pushrods, trays, etc? Just looking for a few tips as I start digging it. And is there a better way to diag what is wrong, I figured just pulling the valve covers and checking the rockers/play would tell me enough of the story, probably check the bores too with a scope just in case.
ALSO, should I leave the engine in the truck or yank it out? Not opposed to leaning into the engine bay but figured I'd ask. I know I have to remove the heads and I don't consider that to be a big deal, just tedious.
Any help would be appreciated!
09-06-2020, 09:15 AM
#2
ModSquad
iTrader: (6)
I’d pull the valve covers first and have a looksey. Did your oil pressure drop to nothing? Oil filter will have “stuff” in it also. Cut it open and it will tell the story usually.
09-06-2020, 09:28 AM
#3
I think if pulling the valve covers off reveals something deeper i would yank the engine,
if the heads are coming off there's not much left to lifting it right out
Easier for cleaning up surfaces if on a stand
if the heads are coming off there's not much left to lifting it right out
Easier for cleaning up surfaces if on a stand
09-06-2020, 11:28 AM
#4
VC off, problem obvious!
https://photos.app.goo.gl/RBc1UuiUdpuvcQtz5
The bolt holding the #7 exhaust rocker bolt was loose,
Checked the push rod, tips were okay and the rod was not bent
So I just went ahead and cranked down the rocker bolt
Checked the the rest of the rocker bolts Found #3 intake rocker bolt to be a little loose, put a 1/4 turn on it.
Fired it up and ran okay but has a good tick coming from the same side of the engine.
Not sure if the rocker bolt came loose as a result of assembler error OR if the component of the valve train wore out. I'm aware of the odds of which answer is most correct but I think I'll stick with the underdog.
So on to the damage repair....
I think I'll just tear up this side a bit and see how cheap I can really be here, it's a junkyard build so I can learn so why not learn how cheap I can be too and report back on durability/longevity.
Like what are the chances I can get away with just a lifter here? I know they are slim but I can make a call on the cam once I remove the head, actually what do you guys think about ordering the most likely parts which broke in advance, I can return what I don't use, that should help speed the duration of the repair... So maybe the lifter, cam, and gaskets for sure, maybe throw a push rod in there since they are cheap... what about a rocker I'm thinking no. Anything else I'm missing or should add while I'm in here?
I also would normally yank the engine too, primarily because I'm old and don't like hanging over the fenders anymore but I think if I'm just getting after this side maybe I'll just leave it in there before I assume the front of the engine has to come off. And if I do pull the front there is plenty of room to slide the cam out if I remove the radiator.
What do you all think? I haven't cheaped out on a build/repair in like 30 years so I'm getting a little pumped for this.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/RBc1UuiUdpuvcQtz5
The bolt holding the #7 exhaust rocker bolt was loose,
Checked the push rod, tips were okay and the rod was not bent
So I just went ahead and cranked down the rocker bolt
Checked the the rest of the rocker bolts Found #3 intake rocker bolt to be a little loose, put a 1/4 turn on it.
Fired it up and ran okay but has a good tick coming from the same side of the engine.
Not sure if the rocker bolt came loose as a result of assembler error OR if the component of the valve train wore out. I'm aware of the odds of which answer is most correct but I think I'll stick with the underdog.
So on to the damage repair....
I think I'll just tear up this side a bit and see how cheap I can really be here, it's a junkyard build so I can learn so why not learn how cheap I can be too and report back on durability/longevity.
Like what are the chances I can get away with just a lifter here? I know they are slim but I can make a call on the cam once I remove the head, actually what do you guys think about ordering the most likely parts which broke in advance, I can return what I don't use, that should help speed the duration of the repair... So maybe the lifter, cam, and gaskets for sure, maybe throw a push rod in there since they are cheap... what about a rocker I'm thinking no. Anything else I'm missing or should add while I'm in here?
I also would normally yank the engine too, primarily because I'm old and don't like hanging over the fenders anymore but I think if I'm just getting after this side maybe I'll just leave it in there before I assume the front of the engine has to come off. And if I do pull the front there is plenty of room to slide the cam out if I remove the radiator.
What do you all think? I haven't cheaped out on a build/repair in like 30 years so I'm getting a little pumped for this.
09-06-2020, 11:32 AM
#5
Oh and I was checking oil pressure and temp the whole way home and it remained perfect so I'm hopeful the oil filter caught what it needed to.
I'll cut the filter open tomorrow and post it up, guessing I'll just see a glitter in the oil.....
I'll cut the filter open tomorrow and post it up, guessing I'll just see a glitter in the oil.....
09-06-2020, 08:59 PM
#6
ModSquad
iTrader: (6)
I had the same rocker come loose on me one time on a build. Totally my fault thought it was properly torqued. I tightened it up, torqued it and all was good. Maybe your tick is just an exhaust leak. I see that all the time on here. Has happened to me also. Very common. Give it a look before you tear it down.
09-07-2020, 09:14 AM
#7
No such luck here, exhaust is tight.
I drove this thing like 5-6 miles to get it home. At the start it was popping a bit then I assume as the bolt backed out it stopped popping and just wasn't happy as the exhaust valve stayed closed. I did nurse it all the way home but having a lifter bounce around off the cam lobe can't be all that good for either the lifter or the cam. I did think I was in luck when the rocker bolt did compress the lifter/valve so there is a cam lobe left but the tick I'm hearing does not sound like an exhaust leak so I'm going to assume minimally the lifter is trashed.
At some point I'll properly rebuild this engine but to get me thru the rest of this year I'll see how it goes if I just invest the minimal amount.
As it looks right now the Lifter is $23, Push Rod is $2.50, Gasket kit $110. I can probably cheap out on the gaskets and buy what looks like crap but I figure having some of these around is a good idea anyway. So for ~$150-$200 if you count fluid and 8-16 hours of work I should be able to get this pig back on the street and see what happens. OH, and if the cam is bad I can replace it for $190 and not much more time either as I already need to pull most of the front off the engine anyway to get the head off.
I guess the only other idea I had was to buy some LS7 lifters and replace them all. When I do get to a proper rebuild I'm likely to go with a set of these anyway so it's not like I'd be wasting the money on parts I wouldn't use.
I drove this thing like 5-6 miles to get it home. At the start it was popping a bit then I assume as the bolt backed out it stopped popping and just wasn't happy as the exhaust valve stayed closed. I did nurse it all the way home but having a lifter bounce around off the cam lobe can't be all that good for either the lifter or the cam. I did think I was in luck when the rocker bolt did compress the lifter/valve so there is a cam lobe left but the tick I'm hearing does not sound like an exhaust leak so I'm going to assume minimally the lifter is trashed.
At some point I'll properly rebuild this engine but to get me thru the rest of this year I'll see how it goes if I just invest the minimal amount.
As it looks right now the Lifter is $23, Push Rod is $2.50, Gasket kit $110. I can probably cheap out on the gaskets and buy what looks like crap but I figure having some of these around is a good idea anyway. So for ~$150-$200 if you count fluid and 8-16 hours of work I should be able to get this pig back on the street and see what happens. OH, and if the cam is bad I can replace it for $190 and not much more time either as I already need to pull most of the front off the engine anyway to get the head off.
I guess the only other idea I had was to buy some LS7 lifters and replace them all. When I do get to a proper rebuild I'm likely to go with a set of these anyway so it's not like I'd be wasting the money on parts I wouldn't use.
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09-19-2020, 07:00 AM
#8
So I dug into the engine thinking lifter, what I found was this...
https://photos.app.goo.gl/XZNDoH9M2MQvxndcA
That is the old slanted rocker curved pushrod pattern, not sure why I didn’t put that together but Unfortunately I didn’t remove the rockers and push rods until I stripped that side of the engine down so I figured I might as well take a peek at the lifters and cam since I was that close.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/gNoiybgQ3nnYa5v28
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vwwr4buPckYeeWzT9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/QHsJATeGJc87RrBYA
https://photos.app.goo.gl/RvaesCXjXX8v4HCR9
Could have got away with reusing the lifters but I declared the hole a valve train disaster site and replaced the intake and exhaust lifters and push rods. Actually replaced all the pushrods because Advanced Auto gave me 2 boxes of 8 push rods for the price of 2 pushrods. I used seal power replacements for lifters an push rods too, in stock and a few bucks cheaper.
I also only replaced the head gasket instead of buying a kit to save a few bucks. And I figured since this was available next day and cheap as hell I used amazon oil!
https://photos.app.goo.gl/TWs6eJSrgEdVyNef8
Oh and I got a new set of head bolts, torque to yield bolts suck but they were cheap. I also forgot what a bitch they were to crank down on a oil and antifreeze soaked floor wearing flip flops...
I have about 150 miles on the truck since I buttoned it up, running good and I’ve sent it sideways a few times and feel good about it getting me thru the rest of the fall before I put it away for the winter.
Moral of the story is Clean and torque to Spec, even if it’s a junkyard bullet. And if that don’t work take it apart starting from the easiest repair to the hardest, I could have got away with just pushrods.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/XZNDoH9M2MQvxndcA
That is the old slanted rocker curved pushrod pattern, not sure why I didn’t put that together but Unfortunately I didn’t remove the rockers and push rods until I stripped that side of the engine down so I figured I might as well take a peek at the lifters and cam since I was that close.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/gNoiybgQ3nnYa5v28
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vwwr4buPckYeeWzT9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/QHsJATeGJc87RrBYA
https://photos.app.goo.gl/RvaesCXjXX8v4HCR9
Could have got away with reusing the lifters but I declared the hole a valve train disaster site and replaced the intake and exhaust lifters and push rods. Actually replaced all the pushrods because Advanced Auto gave me 2 boxes of 8 push rods for the price of 2 pushrods. I used seal power replacements for lifters an push rods too, in stock and a few bucks cheaper.
I also only replaced the head gasket instead of buying a kit to save a few bucks. And I figured since this was available next day and cheap as hell I used amazon oil!
https://photos.app.goo.gl/TWs6eJSrgEdVyNef8
Oh and I got a new set of head bolts, torque to yield bolts suck but they were cheap. I also forgot what a bitch they were to crank down on a oil and antifreeze soaked floor wearing flip flops...
I have about 150 miles on the truck since I buttoned it up, running good and I’ve sent it sideways a few times and feel good about it getting me thru the rest of the fall before I put it away for the winter.
Moral of the story is Clean and torque to Spec, even if it’s a junkyard bullet. And if that don’t work take it apart starting from the easiest repair to the hardest, I could have got away with just pushrods.
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G Atsma (09-19-2020)
