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@1FastBrick what size pushrods are you running with your 2116 LSR lifters?
I'm wondering if part of my original issue w/ trunnion burnup wasn't due to shortage in oil. The pushrods I spec'ed with Manton have a much smaller oiling hole. I wanted to get as close to stock oil metering as the original pushrod. Trevor recommended pushrod in red below... Thought process was the decrease in cavity volume in the pushrod would balance out the decrease in piston volume for lifters. I know that would increase pressure, but not sure anyway to increase volume other than spinning faster and or larger piston no? What are specs on your pushrods?
I also wonder if I'm simply running the lifters too slow. I drive at low RPM. Maybe up to 3500 RPM. I got the lifters because I found an awesome deal on them and wanted link bar lifters.
@1FastBrick what size pushrods are you running with your 2116 LSR lifters?
I'm wondering if part of my original issue w/ trunnion burnup wasn't due to shortage in oil. The pushrods I spec'ed with Manton have a much smaller oiling hole. I wanted to get as close to stock oil metering as the original pushrod. Trevor recommended pushrod in red below... Thought process was the decrease in cavity volume in the pushrod would balance out the decrease in piston volume for lifters. I know that would increase pressure, but not sure anyway to increase volume other than spinning faster and or larger piston no? What are specs on your pushrods?
I also wonder if I'm simply running the lifters too slow. I drive at low RPM. Maybe up to 3500 RPM. I got the lifters because I found an awesome deal on them and wanted link bar lifters.
Mine were similar, but I think for some reason Tony likes the series 4 stuff. I just don't what the reason is.
I hope your theory is wrong though because I have a motor waiting to go in with the same Manton pushrods and CHE conversion... I used the 2010 series lifters in that motor though.
IMO, The other style trunion kit is a bad design. If you look, there are multiple people that have had issues with that design no mater what name they are sold under...
I think there was only 1 alleged failure that I was able to find with the CHE design, How ever the individual claiming the failure had several other issues with his engine set up and was not able to answer some basic Questions about his combo. The kind that if he did assemble the engine himself or had worked on it with a basic understanding of engine assembly he should have been able to answer.
The last set I ordered for that motor waiting to go in was 11/32 -120 wall with 5/16 ball ends for OE heads and rockers with CHE Upgrade Using Johnson 2110 K lifters.
The K designation is a special spec for Katech where they hold a +/- .0002 spec of .8422 O.D. And I did measure them against a standard 2110 Set and they were more consistent. I went with those in my block and sold the Standard 2110 to a friend for his motor. Fortunately I got them before they discontinued the standard lifters. All there lifters are R series moving forward to simplify the production process and keep the production moving.
Good to know you use same dimension pushrods. How many miles do you have on your build?
I'd be the first one to admit the trunnion kit I bought wasn't quality. I really didn't know anything else existed at the time for bronze bushing rebuild. In hindsight, I'd not recommend my old kit to anyone, not even with factory lifters / stock motor. I have another friend running the Che kit like you and has had zero issues. I am throwing everything at the problem probably could have gotten buy cheaper with that kit. Excited to try these shaft mount full roller rockers though.
I should have also posted this picture. Use a sharpie to check pushrod to rocker cup. I notice the cup rides on shoulder of cup with a small area at tip that doesn't make full contact. I assume that's normal. I've never tested that before.
Also checked rocker swipe / contact pattern, like in your example / photo, roughly 0.060" and centered on valve end (best as I could tell my eye) I checked all valves.
Last edited by weinerschizel; 08-09-2022 at 06:12 PM.
I hate to ask but is there another place that does custom length pushrods like Manton does?
I'm stuck. I've been waiting three days now to put in an order with Manton. Called and left my credit card number with them, they said they'd have Trevor call me back. I really want to get my truck back together. I use it all the time but I cannot get these new rocker arms going w/o pushrods and old ones have no preload left. I'm in a crux as I cannot seem to get through to them. Nobody's gotten back with me. I called back again yesterday and they said Matt or Trevor would get back with me. I'm chasing them at this point and I really want to get back to using my truck. They must be really busy right now...
I hate to ask but is there another place that does custom length pushrods like Manton does?
I'm stuck. I've been waiting three days now to put in an order with Manton. Called and left my credit card number with them, they said they'd have Trevor call me back. I really want to get my truck back together. I use it all the time but I cannot get these new rocker arms going w/o pushrods and old ones have no preload left. I'm in a crux as I cannot seem to get through to them. Nobody's gotten back with me. I called back again yesterday and they said Matt or Trevor would get back with me. I'm chasing them at this point and I really want to get back to using my truck. They must be really busy right now...
I haven't used any on else So I am not 100%. I have only had 2 sets custom made and purchased through Tony Mamo.
I See Trend Performance and Smith bros. advertise custom length, You can also look into Crower and Howards cams.
are the rockers not splash oiled ? would it be of any benefit to reduce top end oiling by restricting push rod hole size ?
Forgive my novice, not 100% sure what splash oiled means. They recieve oil from pushrod cup which splashes around after that point from look of it to oil rest of valvetrain. I am using a smaller pushrod hole size than stock. Concern is Moreso reduced volume of oil from shorter travel lifter piston on 2116 LSR lifter.
Great link BTW answers some of my questions! I need to read the comments too. I got through to Manton. They are sending me out pushrods. My originals were 11/32 w/ .120 walls. I just got longer ones per my measurements for new rocker arms
Forgive my novice, not 100% sure what splash oiled means. They recieve oil from pushrod cup which splashes around after that point from look of it to oil rest of valvetrain. I am using a smaller pushrod hole size than stock. Concern is Moreso reduced volume of oil from shorter travel lifter piston on 2116 LSR lifter.
Great link BTW answers some of my questions! I need to read the comments too. I got through to Manton. They are sending me out pushrods. My originals were 11/32 w/ .120 walls. I just got longer ones per my measurements for new rocker arms
Wonder why Tony recommends series 4 Mantons over series 3 or 5.
When I called Manton they said series 5 was there strongest besides the tool steel They didn’t have 3/8 .120 wall in stock when I called so. I decided to go with 3/8 .145 wall per Mantons recommendation. I called all the pushrod companies only Manton could get you within a .005 of the size ordered. Smith bro’s and trend said .025 of what is ordered. That wasn’t going to work on the 2116lsr lifters.
Make sure you measure every pushrod ordered. They will very within that .005
Wonder why Tony recommends series 4 Mantons over series 3 or 5.
When I called Manton they said series 5 was there strongest besides the tool steel They didn’t have 3/8 .120 wall in stock when I called so. I decided to go with 3/8 .145 wall per Mantons recommendation. I called all the pushrod companies only Manton could get you within a .005 of the size ordered. Smith bro’s and trend said .025 of what is ordered. That wasn’t going to work on the 2116lsr lifters.
Make sure you measure every pushrod ordered. They will very within that .005
Thanks! Yeah my back is thanking me for measuring zero lash on every valve A MINIMUM of 3 times. I spent somewhere around 20 hours leaned over the engine bay. I was able to connect with Trevor and they are sending out pushrods per my measurements
Not sure on why the next series up either, different harmonics? My build is a truck. I just need it to be VERY reliable. The engine won't be worked super har, probably less than on the street but needs to be VERY reliable. Honestly, in hindsight I kind of wish I'd bought a LS7 style link bar pushrod instead of the Johnsons. They are a LOT of work to setup.
Wonder why Tony recommends series 4 Mantons over series 3 or 5.
When I called Manton they said series 5 was there strongest besides the tool steel They didn’t have 3/8 .120 wall in stock when I called so. I decided to go with 3/8 .145 wall per Mantons recommendation. I called all the pushrod companies only Manton could get you within a .005 of the size ordered. Smith bro’s and trend said .025 of what is ordered. That wasn’t going to work on the 2116lsr lifters.
Make sure you measure every pushrod ordered. They will very within that .005
You can now have Manton engrave the length on the custom pushrods, like $35 more. It’s **** when ordering several different lengths and you have it all down on paper or via sharpie on the valve cover rail. Manton’ s stuff will be within their spec. They have never missed one that I’ve ordered through them, or Tony.
Oh dang, yeah they never told me about that. I'd have definitely loved to put the valve, cylinder number, and length on each pushrod. Or even just the length.
Do you have an example of how you save the length on the valve cover? Is there a means to save it on the inside of the cover?
Oh dang, yeah they never told me about that. I'd have definitely loved to put the valve, cylinder number, and length on each pushrod. Or even just the length.
Do you have an example of how you save the length on the valve cover? Is there a means to save it on the inside of the cover?
When measuring each hole, simply write the pushrod length that your ordering, on the valve cover rail with a sharpie. Obviously wipe the rail with a clean rag and some brake cleaner before you attempt to write on it. Last engine I set up with limited travel lifters, the pushrods came from Manton with the multiple lengths engraved on them. Tony Mamo ordered them for me. Even though I’ll write the numbers on the rail…or even on the valley cover sometimes…I still transfer all the numbers over to paper. Paper never forgets. I then take a picture of the list on paper, with my phone, Justin Case I need the numbers while away from the shop.
That’s how my series 5 came, with the size on the pushrod, just cleaned and measured every rod and used the measurements I had wrote down on paper to figure out what rod went where to give the closest to .035 +/- .005.
I should mention my measurements, kind of out of curiosity more than anything. How tight is typical for the variance between all the valves? My measurements are below...
That looks great they will very some will be the same or very close, when I see someone say they are installing the same size pushrods on a lifter with a tight tolerance it makes me cringe. The pushrods will also very in size by .005 from what they cut. With that chart you can see what rod will get you the best filament for each valve.
You will be rewarded with a quite valvetrain for your work.
Awesome, thanks for the sanity check @jasons69chevelle . The old rockers were NOISEY. I had feared they may have damaged something, another reason for me spending so much time inspecting and measuring. Couldn't find anything broken or worn out. All lifters had good action when I fiddled with them and wear patterns were similar across the entire motor. Less one valve tip. It looks like I missed this, the machine shop slightly nicked it with a grinder or something. I cannot really feel with my finger (if so, only but slightly). However, it did wear the old rocker tip in that spot. Not sure if I should try and polish that nicked area a bit?
08-09-2022, 12:40 PM
