weinerschizel

I'm having troubles with my pushrod length. Building a LQ9 motor outlined below. My lifters are the 2116LSR lifters from Johnson HERE

I'm hitting zero lash (no preload) at 7.465". I'm told factory spec pushrod would be 7.400" which I'm exceeding by 0.015" without factoring in preload yet. My measurements are HERE

My heads were milled but the machine shop says they planed & shortened the valve stems too to offset the change in height. Either way, they just did a resurfacing job as I didn't want to increase compression.

Here's my build details, probably more than needed...

• LQ9 short block full float piston setup to factory spec
• Refurbished 317 heads (resurfaced, valve job, etc) to factory spec
  • Resurfaced, valves ground, than stems planed to same height.
  • Dual valve springs w/ retainers, seats, etc.
  • Bronze Bushing Trunion rebuild kit HERE (note compared to factory rocker trunion and lash is the same).
• Vinci camshaft 578/587/213/220/114+4A
  • Reduced base circle of 0.025"
  • Max lift @ ratio 1.7 is 0.587"
• 2116LSR Johnson Lifters
  • Spec 0.035 preload +/- 0.010" per Johnson tech support
• Head gasket compressed to 0.053" once installed

Bob570

Johnson 2116LSR lifters are shorter than stock, so they need a longer pushrod.

I have the 2116LSRs in my car with PRC 225 heads, and my pushrods are all between 7.625 and 7.650.

Measure to zero lash, add preload, then order your pushrods.

weinerschizel

OMG thank you. I am sitting here chasing phantoms that do not exist! Really appreciate the help

weinerschizel

Any idea specifically of how much shorter the 2116LSR lifers are than spec / LS7 style lifters?

G Atsma

A call to Johnson might answer that question.

weinerschizel

Left them a voicemail haha, just a bit impatient to get my engine put together. But really I should wait 12 hours for a response instead of surfing the web for dimensions of their lifter haha I do recall looking at them next to a factory lifter and wondering if the seat was further down on the lifter.

UPDATE: Joe at Johnson Lifters returned my email. He said he would rather not answer that question and should measure everything regardless.

weinerschizel

Silly question, where is a good place to get custom length pushrods and what wall thickness do you think I should get?

CattleAc

iTrader: (7)

Manton.

weinerschizel

I continue to fiddle with my spreadsheet. After the holiday will verify with Johnson Lifters. But it almost appears as though these were designed to be drop in lifters with 7.500" pushrods. If I set my pushrod length to 7.500" everything falls within the spec for every valve. That's the 0.035 +/- 0.010 that I was given on last call with Johnson Lifters. Although my camshaft has a 0.025" reduce circle, not sure if that's standard on LS camshafts. I will double check with them after the holiday.

Roger who designed my cam said to use a 0.080" wall thickness due to longer pushrod length. Unfortunately he doesn't have pushrods over 7.450". I think a smaller oil hole than stock would be important to because my guess is these move smaller volume of oil? I found these here from Trick Flow, Part # TFS-21407500 Now another basket of questions.

How do I know if the ball heads on the pushrods are compatible with my rocker arms (stock LS arms) and the lifter seat? Seems if they make pushrods with different radius heads they would sit at a different point on the seats.

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

My advice - call Manton. Order your length in 11/32 x .120 thickness. Get series 3. You will not need to clearance and your valve train will be very stable.

weinerschizel

I like the idea of the thicker wall pushrods. I will give Manton a call on Monday. Really hoping to keep one length all together though. Part of my variance in measurements (13 thousands variance) is due to old rocker arms, a little my technique as well. I rebuilt my rocker arms but honestly, those trunion rebuild kits aren't that great if needing to hit tight tolerances. I think they'll more than do the trick but they leave a few thousands play in the rocker arm, and I measured 5 thousands variance at the tip in a sampling of 5 rocker arms.

I have a 1999 FRC C5 Corvette with M6. I bought it built up a bit. Patriot Heads (not sure which casting), LS7 Camshaft, C5 Z06 exhaust, and 4.10 rear end. It'll light the tires up shifting into 4th gear at 85 MPH. I've wanted something to wrench on and figured why mess with the vette, more power would just mean more crazy. I bought this 2001 Z71 Tahoe. A complete POS haha. Been rebuilding it. Hope is to make an HD Tahoe. This motor is for that truck probably will never see over 6000 RPM, mostly down in under 4000 RPM. I hope the tow my Corvette to races with it. And I also go off road (slow overlanding style) with it on forest roads here in Arizona. Had I known these 2116LSR lifters were short throw lifters I probably wouldn't have bought them but I found out after putting the heads all together and on the short block

I'm just looking to build a reliable motor that gets good torque at low RPM. So these lifters *sigh* probably were not the best choice. However, damn there is so little information on lifters out there. I bought my bare block from a machine builder and asked him about lifters cause I know the factory ones cause some headache (and had in my original motor). He said buy Johnson Lifters and nothing else. That's why I ultimately sprung for these. However, even Johnson's website doesn't get into these details *sigh*.

I started specing this build over on TahoeYukonForum.com unfortunately, there's very few engine builders over there and nobody with experience on Johnson Lifters. I really didn't know there's that much involved with lifters, learning as I go a bit... I forgot I was a member over here. I think I actually bought my Corvette off here, or CorvetteForum.com back in the day.

G Atsma

A few thousandths one way or another is not an issue. They are HYDRAULIC lifters, and will accommodate such variances.

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

Do this -- measure all 16 rods. Manton will do custom lengths same price as standard length. Order something goofy like 9@7.488, 4@7.505, etc.

Or you might luck out and just get 8@7.496 and 8@7.513. Something like that.

Another approach that works in stock rockers, order your longest length. Then use machine shims under the pedestal to set preload. Ie #3 exhaust has .015 too much, add .010 shim under the pedestal to get within .005.

weinerschizel

You r my hero! I kept wondering if I could shim the rocker arm like that. Were do you buy machine shims? I found one company that makes shims to do exactly what you mention but only in 20 thousands.

Had thought if I could just buy a bunch of shims like on my feeler gauge of 5, 10, and 15 ghousands would work excellet. Cut a small hole for bolt and put under rocker arm.

Do you know where they sell machine shims?

UPDATE: i am stupid. I will buy feeler gauges and canibalize them. Autozone here sells them for $3 each.

1FastBrick

iTrader: (16)

I just got my Manton's yesterday. It say's they are series 4 though... Product code #402 they are 11/32 X .120 Wall supposed to have a 5/16 ball.

You can buy shim stock in different thickness from a place like McMaster Carr. It comes in a sheet and you cut it to what ever shape you need.

Grainger might also sell it but I haven't looked. Depending on where you live there may also be Industrial or aviation hardware store in your area that carries it as well. Near Me we have McFadden Dale Hardware and I have seen it there too.

weinerschizel

Bingo found it. I wonder what material would be best? It will be aluminum to rocker arm trunion (steel?).

I have a buddy who is A&P for lear jet service station in town. Already asked if he could just swipe me some leftovers haha

He is going to ask a machinist there.

1FastBrick

iTrader: (16)

I am sure he will have some left over laying around. LOL

You set it between the head and the stand that holds the trunion.

As for material, probably Stainless.

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

Stock LS arms you can pull the pedestal rail. Put the shin between the head and the mounting rail. There is a sticky on how this was done using stock rockers with low lash solid roller cam. I think you can get a lot of washer style shims from McMaster carr

1FastBrick

iTrader: (16)

Here is the thread he is referencing showing how to shim it.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...cker-arms.html

weinerschizel

wow that is genious, cutting the plates and shimming underneath. I will look for the washers you mentioned.