7500 RPM reliably
05-24-2021, 10:27 AM
#42
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Im pretty sure the C5 engineers wanted an 8k tach in the first LS1 powered vette but of course they didn't get it. I'm going 7500 in my cam only lq9 powered 4th gen Z with just Summit Racing ls6 springs, BTR pushrods, and the new comp cams low shock Drift cam, I don't know how much cheaper you can get than that for a cheap high RPM long block, well accept for the fact that I just had to be rebuild my poor old 4L60e but it was probably already hurt from grenading my old rearend, however those transmissions usually need a little more help to rev so high and make shifts anyways lol
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wannafbody (05-25-2021)
05-24-2021, 12:38 PM
#45
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Valve train currently is: ws6store max effort rockers, 11/32 .120 wall summit pushrods, ls7 lifters, btr .660 lift springs, and custom cam motion cam.
05-24-2021, 06:45 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by QwkTrip
I don't have a wealth of experience so I have to rely on the experience of others. Johnson supported GM racing teams so they naturally have a leg up with knowledge of GM development test standards and some advanced engineering resources. In other words, there's some deep knowledge there. When the LS7 lifter wasn't good enough, GM created the Cadillac Racing lifter. When the Cadillac Racing lifter wasn't good enough, GM worked with Johnson. And the Johnson short-travel lifter exceeded every durability test that the Caddy lifter didn't pass. I would think any of the Johnson lifters are a safe buy for a fun street car. And they have an axle oiling version for setups that generate heavier loads on the lifter. Call 'em up and they'll help you choose. And Manton probably has the most experience making pushrods for use with Johnson lifters. Those two companies work well together and make good stuff.
Personally, I'm not buying Morel, I just know my buddy has had success with it. Morel is trying to play the low-cost and high-end market at the same time and their low cost stuff is junk. I've seen it again and again in my work experience how the low-cost ideas eventually bleeds over into the high-end product and I don't know where Morel draws the line. Johnson only has good stuff and I can buy with confidence.
I used LS7 lifters back in 2011 and it worked fine for some short revs to 7K rpm with the gentle lobes of a Cammotion cam. But I'm too scared to use new GM lifters now. Seems in the last few years I've seen a lot of stories of GM lifter failures (axle failures, rotating in the bore, seizing to the bore). I'm not sure the GM lifters are as good as they used to be. Have you guys been seeing the same thing?
Personally, I'm not buying Morel, I just know my buddy has had success with it. Morel is trying to play the low-cost and high-end market at the same time and their low cost stuff is junk. I've seen it again and again in my work experience how the low-cost ideas eventually bleeds over into the high-end product and I don't know where Morel draws the line. Johnson only has good stuff and I can buy with confidence.
I used LS7 lifters back in 2011 and it worked fine for some short revs to 7K rpm with the gentle lobes of a Cammotion cam. But I'm too scared to use new GM lifters now. Seems in the last few years I've seen a lot of stories of GM lifter failures (axle failures, rotating in the bore, seizing to the bore). I'm not sure the GM lifters are as good as they used to be. Have you guys been seeing the same thing?
If it matters, Johnson makes some of Isky branded hydraulic lifters.
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98cherrySS (05-27-2021), BCNUL8R (05-25-2021)
05-25-2021, 06:26 AM
#47
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Personally I like the Johnson 2126 short travel. Not for reliability as much as just the short travel aspect. Closer to a solid. For most people the 2110 Johnson is a tremendous upgrade and a reasonable price for what you get.
If it matters, Johnson makes some of Isky branded hydraulic lifters.
If it matters, Johnson makes some of Isky branded hydraulic lifters.
Like these:
https://www.johnsonlifters.com/Produ...s/2116LSR.aspx
05-25-2021, 07:19 AM
#48
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Sounds like when ever I do heads if I go with some good Johnson link bar lifters and correct length pushrods I’ll be good to go with the rest of my setup.
Like these:
https://www.johnsonlifters.com/Produ...s/2116LSR.aspx
Like these:
https://www.johnsonlifters.com/Produ...s/2116LSR.aspx
05-25-2021, 09:53 AM
#49
TECH Enthusiast
Sounds like when ever I do heads if I go with some good Johnson link bar lifters and correct length pushrods I’ll be good to go with the rest of my setup.
Like these:
https://www.johnsonlifters.com/Produ...s/2116LSR.aspx
Like these:
https://www.johnsonlifters.com/Produ...s/2116LSR.aspx
As Darth said, you will need a little bit longer pushrod with these.
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BCNUL8R (05-25-2021)
05-25-2021, 10:14 AM
#50
What is the cheapest valve train setup you trust to reliably turn 7500+ rpm. Not at a constant like a circle track car or something, but a street/strip type application.
Assuming the obvious like cam, heads, intake manifold to actually make power at those rpms. Personally I am and will continue to be procharged so that certainly helps with making power at high rpm due to the nature of the centrifugal. Mostly focused upon valve train requirements.
Assuming the obvious like cam, heads, intake manifold to actually make power at those rpms. Personally I am and will continue to be procharged so that certainly helps with making power at high rpm due to the nature of the centrifugal. Mostly focused upon valve train requirements.
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05-25-2021, 10:50 AM
#51
Wonder why more of the SBE record guys don't do LLSR, they spin well north of 8200RPM. Price? Wonder what the gains would be on a 8000RPM, 1250whp setup currently running a Summit cam. Guessing it would cost more than the whole engine combo to switch it all out for a few hp.
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G Atsma (05-25-2021)
05-25-2021, 02:01 PM
#53
TECH Fanatic
Personally I like the Johnson 2126 short travel. Not for reliability as much as just the short travel aspect. Closer to a solid. For most people the 2110 Johnson is a tremendous upgrade and a reasonable price for what you get.
If it matters, Johnson makes some of Isky branded hydraulic lifters.
If it matters, Johnson makes some of Isky branded hydraulic lifters.
05-25-2021, 05:10 PM
#55
The valve springs and oil pressure are the most important for reliability at 7,500+ rpm. What else you need will depend on your choice of camshaft.
Too soft of a valve spring, you float the valves and lose power. Too stiff and the valvetrain deflects and you lose power or break something.
Reliable hydraulic lifters: Johnson 2110 lifters, 2116LSR if you want to get rid of lifter trays, 2126LSR for axle oiling and link bars.
Short travel versions of the Johnson lifters will require custom order pushrods. Just go LLSR instead of short travel, its more reliable and easier to adjust. It would probably cost the same if you don't include the camshaft.
I don't recommend stock lifters but they are reliable up to 7,200 rpm with high oil pressure.
Most setups only need a 5/16 diameter pushrod to be reliable. Even stock pushrods with a mild cam will rev to 8,000rpm without breaking...not that I found any power up there but it was cool to try.
Pushrod size (diameter/thickness/shape) depends on valvetrain deflection.....ie: cam lift, seat pressure
OEM GM stock rockers are very light and reliable at any rpm. The needle bearings they come with are not that bad when they are brand new. The CHE trunnion upgrade kit for stock rockers is good for 7,500+ rpm.
I have been reusing the same set of ~200k mile stock rockers with a CHE kit on multiple engines.
BTR sells a rocker shaft kit which was designed to get rid of deflection (Instead of a trunnion kit). I have this kit but haven't had chance to use it so I couldn't tell you how well it works.
You may pick up more power at 7k rpm+ running better components but stock stuff will rev to 7,500 rpm without breaking. Oil pressure and gearing is more important at that stage.....
Here's an example on a 5.3 that I shift at 7000-7,500 rpm all the time.
4150 TB, single plane EFI intake
Cam Motion Camshaft; 226/234 112+4, 0.600/0.600 lift
Double Valve Springs 0.660" lift
5/16 push rods, 7.400
CHE trunnion kit on stock rockers
~10.7 compression ratio
stock bearings, stock rod bolts, stock flat top pistons, stock lifters, stock head bolts, stock 862 heads, 0.039 headgasket,
stock cylinder bores, out of round and PTW gap is over 0.0030
original stock rods and crank, complete with scratches and and some runout
I went to 7,300+rpm on this awd dyno. My redline is open.
Too soft of a valve spring, you float the valves and lose power. Too stiff and the valvetrain deflects and you lose power or break something.
Reliable hydraulic lifters: Johnson 2110 lifters, 2116LSR if you want to get rid of lifter trays, 2126LSR for axle oiling and link bars.
Short travel versions of the Johnson lifters will require custom order pushrods. Just go LLSR instead of short travel, its more reliable and easier to adjust. It would probably cost the same if you don't include the camshaft.
I don't recommend stock lifters but they are reliable up to 7,200 rpm with high oil pressure.
Most setups only need a 5/16 diameter pushrod to be reliable. Even stock pushrods with a mild cam will rev to 8,000rpm without breaking...not that I found any power up there but it was cool to try.
Pushrod size (diameter/thickness/shape) depends on valvetrain deflection.....ie: cam lift, seat pressure
OEM GM stock rockers are very light and reliable at any rpm. The needle bearings they come with are not that bad when they are brand new. The CHE trunnion upgrade kit for stock rockers is good for 7,500+ rpm.
I have been reusing the same set of ~200k mile stock rockers with a CHE kit on multiple engines.
BTR sells a rocker shaft kit which was designed to get rid of deflection (Instead of a trunnion kit). I have this kit but haven't had chance to use it so I couldn't tell you how well it works.
You may pick up more power at 7k rpm+ running better components but stock stuff will rev to 7,500 rpm without breaking. Oil pressure and gearing is more important at that stage.....
Here's an example on a 5.3 that I shift at 7000-7,500 rpm all the time.
4150 TB, single plane EFI intake
Cam Motion Camshaft; 226/234 112+4, 0.600/0.600 lift
Double Valve Springs 0.660" lift
5/16 push rods, 7.400
CHE trunnion kit on stock rockers
~10.7 compression ratio
stock bearings, stock rod bolts, stock flat top pistons, stock lifters, stock head bolts, stock 862 heads, 0.039 headgasket,
stock cylinder bores, out of round and PTW gap is over 0.0030
original stock rods and crank, complete with scratches and and some runout
I went to 7,300+rpm on this awd dyno. My redline is open.
Last edited by Sway Tale; 05-25-2021 at 05:40 PM.
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NAVYBLUE210 (05-25-2021)
05-25-2021, 06:11 PM
#57
Wilson 4150 with a 14" drop base round air cleaner and edelbrock vic jr. Nothing ported.
Yea its naturally aspirated. It also peaked around 6,300 ish but it only lost 14hp at 7k.
This is all through a subaru awd manual (3 differentials)
Yea its naturally aspirated. It also peaked around 6,300 ish but it only lost 14hp at 7k.
This is all through a subaru awd manual (3 differentials)
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wannafbody (05-25-2021)
05-25-2021, 06:15 PM
#58
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05-25-2021, 07:01 PM
#59
I can report that the D1x is rated at 1075 hp with a max impeller speed of 62,000. I'm spinning it to 64,000 impeller speed and it doesn't stop making boost seeing 20 psi peak at 7000 rpm. I'm running 1 3/4 headers with a 2.5" magnaflow catback and the stock 241 heads so there is still some power to be made with this blower before going bigger. Impressive little blower.
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wannafbody (05-25-2021)
05-25-2021, 10:17 PM
#60
TECH Fanatic
I mentioned above that I have this new stick in my j/y LQ9 with new summit ls6 springs and timing chain, as well as Btr 7.450" pushrods, typical ls6 intake and 1-3/4" pacesetters, I won't have any Dyno #s for a while but I'll take it to the track soon. I'm hopeful with my new 245mm 3800 stall converter, built 4L60e, 4.10's and 26" Hoosiers I'll be competitive with some of the more expensive combos mentioned above running more lift, short travel lifters, ect. Seriously all they recommend for 7500rpm is a new chain! Obviously mine won't need to go that high for now but maybe someday with the right intake and bigger headers it will!