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Had a 900hp twin turbo swapped Nissan for about a year an half. Car was a blast but I was offered a better looking shell and 23k cash so it’s time for a new build…
new build is NA for clean engine bay and keep AC. 500hp with nitrous shot for once in awhile. T56
Intake exhaust :
I have to use ls1/6 intake manifold. 92mm TB largest I can use. Aftermarket long tube headers for the swap by kooks 1.875 primaries with 3” collectors. Dual 3” or 2.5” back?
fuel :
holley rail, unsure injectors, 450 in tank pump, -6 lines, aeromotive regulator.
Heads:
manley ported heads with big valves. Got them from a buddy who had them on a 1200hp turbo car. The valve seat was damaged then fixed by local machine shop. Giving them to me for $1500 but idk size of valves.
block: THIS WHERE NEED MOST HELP
Gen3 6.0 block. Summit rotating assembly? New bearing all around. High flow oil pump. Stock corvette crank pulley. Arp studs. Head gaskets?
this is the gist of the build. Drive it daily. Shoot for 500na then add little nitrous(100-150) for the fun times. I have 0 clue which compression to do and pistons etc. there’s ton of options for assemblies. I don’t want to be overkill and have car be some loud *** track sounding car that sucks to idle with. Some lobe isn’t horrible but I know there’s a line which makes the car unbearable.
I could buy ls3 for 6k from crashed vette then add the cam kit and call it a day which won’t do 500 but reliable. OR just take 6.0 block to machine shop with a summit assembly and have them give block back assembled and bored out to whatever size. Prob cost 6k but be brand new and better. Fuel is 93 octane!
thanks man. Any thoughts on compression ratio that isn’t too crazy for 93 oct?
also would boring the 6.0 out that much be problematic ?
You could always throw in a 4 inch stroke and leave the bore alone. I'd stick to something like 11.5 to give yourself some cushion but people have gone higher.
Are you shouting for 500 flywheel or tire? How are you going to fit a 92mm Tb on a ls1/ls6 intake unless you cut the snout off and put a bigger one on?
Are you shouting for 500 flywheel or tire? How are you going to fit a 92mm Tb on a ls1/ls6 intake unless you cut the snout off and put a bigger one on?
500 wheel.
I currently have a 92mm on ls1 intake. Doesn’t seem like anything crazy for it to fit
You could always throw in a 4 inch stroke and leave the bore alone. I'd stick to something like 11.5 to give yourself some cushion but people have gone higher.
from what I’ve gathered, 11.5 compression is good. Could be higher on pump but not necessary for my power wants. The bore slight bigger to clean block and stock rod and crank is fine.
guess just the heads I have and the forged pistons for 11.5 , long tube with the intake and TB should be able to squeeze out the 500. Not sure how accurate that is , I always thought I needed larger pistons to make that much extra power.
do the gen3 and 4.030 bore option. I need to figure out the heads CC though cause I think that will lower compression if it flows too good and hurt performance.
For the heads use a horse syringe and a piece of clear lexan with some vaseline on the bottom to seal it. Not hard to find out the cc.
I would go the 408 route. I built a 13:1 4.030 3.622 with a overly large cam and prc heads it made 500 to the wheels almost exactly. Then later built a 408 with the same heads 14:1 and it was 550 to the wheels. I would say 500 is doable but it's not super easy and be pump gas friendly.
For the heads use a horse syringe and a piece of clear lexan with some vaseline on the bottom to seal it. Not hard to find out the cc.
I would go the 408 route. I built a 13:1 4.030 3.622 with a overly large cam and prc heads it made 500 to the wheels almost exactly. Then later built a 408 with the same heads 14:1 and it was 550 to the wheels. I would say 500 is doable but it's not super easy and be pump gas friendly.
I need to do the heads ASAP. It lowers compression the more CC correct? So maybe need to buy pistons that list compression higher.
I need to do the heads ASAP. It lowers compression the more CC correct? So maybe need to buy pistons that list compression higher.
yes. Pick pistons based on cc of the heads( if you have heads and no pistons). I like to shoot for .051 head gaskets due to availability.
you will need flow data on your heads to get the proper cam.
Heads:
manley ported heads with big valves. Got them from a buddy who had them on a 1200hp turbo car. The valve seat was damaged then fixed by local machine shop. Giving them to me for $1500 but idk size of valves.
I would take another look at those heads. Last I checked, Manley supplied valvetrain components, not porting services. The valve job looks botched to me. Maybe it’s the pic, but it looks like the edge of the seat insert in the head has chipped away. Whomever did the porting and blending, it looks decent.
The runner length of the FAST intake is going to pretty much force peak power in the 6200 to 6500 RPM range. You will need anywhere between 404ft-lbs (@6500) and 438ft-lbs (@6000) to reach your goal of 500whp. This is a very reasonable goal with either stock stroke or a 4” stroke crank, but the more cubic inches will definitely make it easier, even if the heads and cam are not ideal.
This looks kinda like the build I'll have going on in a few months, except mine is an LM7 with LS6 heads, 3.902x4, 614/624 227/293 113 cam, and a sheet metal intake with 102mm throttle body.
Our stage 4 Extra valve clearance cam SUM-8711R1 with a stock LS3 (1/78 headers in gen. 5 camaro heavy wheels, auto) is a little over 470whp as measured on a dynojet. 11.5:1 is a nice target and the tuning window is forgiving with any decently sized cam. The driveability and midrange of our slightly smaller SUM-8710R1 makes it a favorite for tuners as it only loses 6whp and only above 6100. BTR 3 is a solid choice though. There are lots of folks that talk about cam only LS3's making 500 but that doens't happen on the dyno we tune on even with fairly large cams like our Stage V SUM-8721R1 which isn't the easiest beast to tune if you are using an older 24X ecm. Your heads might be great though and you may want to consider the MSD intake as it seems to have the best average power of a Cathedral Port out there. We sell the sheetmetals too...and they do make higher peak power but for the RPM range you will find yourself in usually, acceleration with the MSD would actually be quicker. The bigger cubes and especially the bigger bore will make it all easier to hit your target. The Stroker's are a nice option (we added some compression to those (compared to standard stroke) and it will use up the available airflow a little sooner to hit your target hp sooner and this matches the typical long runner intake tuning length and will keep the valvetrain more stable...which all contribute. Either way, you go...you are going to have a lot of fun with it if you don't get hung up on the number. Happy Thanksgiving!
Our stage 4 Extra valve clearance cam SUM-8711R1 with a stock LS3 (1/78 headers in gen. 5 camaro heavy wheels, auto) is a little over 470whp as measured on a dynojet. 11.5:1 is a nice target and the tuning window is forgiving with any decently sized cam. The driveability and midrange of our slightly smaller SUM-8710R1 makes it a favorite for tuners as it only loses 6whp and only above 6100. BTR 3 is a solid choice though. There are lots of folks that talk about cam only LS3's making 500 but that doens't happen on the dyno we tune on even with fairly large cams like our Stage V SUM-8721R1 which isn't the easiest beast to tune if you are using an older 24X ecm. Your heads might be great though and you may want to consider the MSD intake as it seems to have the best average power of a Cathedral Port out there. We sell the sheetmetals too...and they do make higher peak power but for the RPM range you will find yourself in usually, acceleration with the MSD would actually be quicker. The bigger cubes and especially the bigger bore will make it all easier to hit your target. The Stroker's are a nice option (we added some compression to those (compared to standard stroke) and it will use up the available airflow a little sooner to hit your target hp sooner and this matches the typical long runner intake tuning length and will keep the valvetrain more stable...which all contribute. Either way, you go...you are going to have a lot of fun with it if you don't get hung up on the number. Happy Thanksgiving!
how would you rate your cam that loses the extra 6rwhp compared to the btr stage 3? I will be driving this all the time. I don’t care if it has a small lump idle but I don’t wanna be checking my rpm often to make sure its not misfiring or idling up and down with huge swings. Does your cam come with correct size pushrods and springs? This is really why I like BTR. Ease of knowing I can throw the parts on and don’t need to worry about measuring it all.
as for the intake, I’m a noob with the LS intakes. I know the ls1/6 style intakes fit under my stock Nissan hood. Which is super important. The ones you carry flow better than those and have that low profile design? The sheet metal intake with runners on them hit the hood so Idk how many options I really have.
as for the rotation assembly, I may not be able to order from your company. Only because I cannot find an assembly similar to link I posted above. Your compression ranges seem to be 10s and lower. I’m leaning towards that 4.000 and .030 bore above the 6.0 with 12-12.5 compression because my heads should be larger CC. I’m going measure heads somehow first but very certain the flow much more than stock.
im coming from a 830hp turbo car but it had 900ft lbs of tq by 4400rpms. While I’m not searching for that same target I don’t want it to feel like a slug either. That’s really why I chose the 500hp number. If it can make about 500 target Na then I can add spray for some extra when I really wanna have some fun. I already have a twin turbo 6.0 track car. So this is a street fun car that can still hold its own.
The BTR is a good cam (we sell a lot of them too) but we've never tested back to back. The cams are within .5 degrees of intake opening and closing and we open our exhaust valve 1.5 degrees earlier. Lift is withing .006 as well on the intake and .010 on exhaust...so very similar, but he hasn't published seat timing at .006, so it's hard to say what idle quality is like down to the hair. Our advertised seat timing is 279/291 and the SUM-8710R1 is up 15 ft./lbs at 3500 compared to SUM-8711R1. You can't go wrong with cams in this range though.
One thing is cam's should'nt be installed without checking pushrod length because there is a strong likelyhood that it will be wrong. Especially in your case where your heads have been worked/milled (.030 is common) but a worked chamber makes it hard to estimate. This is the reason we don't do cam/pushrod kits but do sell a lot of pushrod length checkers . We have BTR's comon 7.400 pushrods as well as our own HDR 11/32 HDR 7.400's 7.425's etc. Cam Motion too. Basically everyone's.
Getting on to intakes. The Dorman LS2 performs as well as the Fast 92 and both outperform a stock LS6 handily. The LS6's have gotten a lot more expensive in recent years. If you haven't made a purchase yet, the Fast 102 is a really strong contender and opens up the TB possibilities. Still, if you can get a deal, LS6 is decent performer.
Yes, we target 11.5:1 with many of our combinations 5.3/5.7/6.2 small dome pistons, but not 6.0 because we expect that one to be used with E and boost or nitrous quite a bit versus an LS3 guy or LS1 guy. The Domed 6.0 pistons like the Wiseco/ProTru (PTS523A3) are excellent and 100% compatible with our SUM-LS6098945 rods (not in stock at the moment) but keep in mind they are intended to go with a .945 pin diameter Gen. 3 rod or a Gen IV rod that is honed in the small end .0017. The K1 KOT-012AE29610 K1 Rod (another great choice but also not in stock). The 4cc dome would net 12.5:1 (with .045 net piston to head clearance calculated), but ANOTHER choice is going with some of the DSS pistons with a 6cc dome (depending on your chamber volume) but those have a .927 pin diatmeter. Then you open up the common 6.125/.927 pin options like our SUM-LS6125927. We'd highly recommend getting your head's cc'd because 12.5:1 is going to need a fuel additive.
There is a lot to chew on here, but let us know the direction you are leaning and your timeline and we'll see what can be put together for you.
If you were thinking about a crank, your stock crank is fine but if you DO want to purchase a crank, then it really makes sense to go stroker. Then we get into a whole 'nuther batch of options lol.
11-19-2021, 05:11 PM
Summit assembly 500hp NA 
. We have BTR's comon 7.400 pushrods as well as our own HDR 11/32 HDR 7.400's 7.425's etc. Cam Motion too. Basically everyone's.