Hi all, Pleasure joing this group.
I am trying to find a cam for my N/A set up and want to try and improve on a previous set up I once had. Need all the help I can get.
Previous set up
-Standard LS6 Manfold ( due to budget restraints)
-Ported 243 Heads with the Largest possible over size valves i could have fitted.
Cam 230 230 111 616 Intake 616 exhaust Advanced 2
I had a them Decked and used 7375 pushrod on standard 1:7 rockers with just a trunion upgrade kit
degrees. I wanted ti step the exhaust duratiI n down to 600 down but the company I used didn't have the ability to do so.
- 25%Underdrive
- 3700 stall
- 3.9 Diff gears
- 1 3/4 primary long tube 4 into 1 headers
-Upgraded injectors
- Large otr
- I switched twice between a twin 2 5 and twin 3 inch but found the 2.5 felt torquier. I have kept the 3 inch just in case.
Vehicle weight 1780kg
Car made 300rwkw on a rich tune and used to fry the tyres all the time. Was very hard to get traction even with slicks off the mar at the drags.
Reason I had it on the rich side was it ran a 15 % ethanol blend with the rest being pump 98 which I think is the same as 91 in the states
power and torque was instants. Was a pig on fuel but it made up for it in fun.
It would loose some puff in third and 4th on wide open throttle.
best times I got was an 11.9 without being able to launch properly off the line. I had to ease on the throttle which cost me time and the car would realy hit hard sideways in second.

NEW BUILD
- Heads will be either ported 243 heads or 215 AFR's with larger valves and a mix of cnc and hand porting.
-Valvesprings , I have always used Manley Nex tek and havent had one snap yet. I have also heard really good thing about Brian Tooleys valvesprins as they have a titanium retainer which is supposed to help keep some load off the valves.
Rockera I will probably just go for a trunnion upgrade kit again, Either caged bearing or Brass bush. Only thing I dont like about k ut brass bush is the wear.
I absolutely live the quality and price of Comp Cam Magnum's , being cromoly but the only issue is they have a higher lift than the standard onesI think 1:89 from memory. I could go less lift in the cam to make up for this but I'm ot sure if that will work very well

-pushrods Crow cam Cromoly 7375 to work with the the decking of the heads for more comp.
​​​​​16imjectors are on the large side but are very easy to work with. Full length Matched set of Bosch Motorsport 1000's
The stock injectors seem to run out once the cam has more than 230'duration.
I have set my shifts to 6700 to alow second gear to be in its ideal rpm range.
Runs out of puff at 6500 but only so slightly
Diff gears are 3:9 with a Harrop True Track


Question:
I saw an awesome write up in heads In here and would love some expert advice on which cam I could use to get me a better power figure and still have that tire frying torque?

I also am curious , why don't single patern cams get used that much, what are the cons in going a single patern cam?

I have installed a few cams in many of my mates cars in the past and tried a few grinds. For some reason the best performance I could get was from this and 2 others.
This one had by far the best torque if the 2.
when I tried to go above 230 in duration for some reason I had less power on the dyno and on the street but cant figure out why.
The worst by far was 232 234 110 600in 598 ex. 265 rwkw
I also tried another grind in a friends car 236 242 112 lsa 615 600ex Same thing made a measly 270 rwkw
only thing that comes to mind is maybe the inlet manifold restriction.
I do want to to retain the factory inlet manifold just because it so expensive upgrading this. I have already spent a shitload on my two other cars. One has a fully forged ls1 Compstar Rods , Icon Pistons Scatt crank, Xnc and hand pirted big valve 243 heads with the chambers worked over slightly.l, Dry sump with a single Garrett GTX42R turbo , turbo 400, 3500 stall , custom tailshaft the other I have fabricated q rear mount single turbo from the extractora back in steam pipe. This is my daily to replace the old camed car I had built and I just want it to be that little bit better.

I Dont know how to ask the sponsors. If anyone could tag them it would be great.
Really appreciate your help guys

 

I think you already have what you are looking for, maybe just need to look deeper into the tuning ?

 

How high are you revving the engine?

 

6750 to get into a better rpm range in second gear.

 

I've spent so much time on the track getting the tune spot on. It is rich because I run a 15% ethanol blend.
Its making great torque 685 nm in 3rd but I just want that little bit more.
Im wondering if I try and increase the duration to a 233 233 amd advance it by 3 degrees if it will work well.
only thing that puts me off this is I know of someone who did the same duration but didn't advance the cam, Went 600 on in and ex and had it ground on 110 lsa. He only managed 280 rwkw. It just doaent make sense why its going backwards. The only two factors here are 16 degrees less lift and no advance. Lsa at 110 might also be huting it.
it was on a good motor as well with heads and optimal comp

 

If onky i could get an extra 15 or so kw without having to change the intake. I just,wanted to make this line that but better some how. I have seen 233 233 go backwards as well and was contemplating even just trying 1 degree extra.
I think i need someone to look into it with more experience than me. It works great but if I spen a bit more and get it just that extra bit bettet I be stocked.
Would love to even run a mid 11 consistently but to spen close to 3k aus I n the fast intake and manifold is just a bit much atm.
I'd much rather save a little more again at a later date and run either a second hand lsa blower or a side mount vortex

 

My gut feeling is adding duration is the wrong way to go. I would normally expect a mid-230s cam to shift around 7300. Since you are talking at 6800 shift point, your midrange is more important than your peak power number. I think your other data should confirm that - every bigger cam you run is slower.

If you are dead set on a cam swap, I would go something like 228/232-111+2 and I would push lift to .653/.638

And I would bump compression to 11.5 if it's 91 octane. 11.8 if it's 93.

A little extra:
Your LS6 intake will force the power to peak around 6300. Screwing around with cam timing works to move it slightly, but your power peak is going to be around 6300 almost no matter what. On a 5.7, that corresponds to intake close at 43 degrees quite nicely. Overlap will help you carry power past peak.

Another option might be a 230/230-110+2, again pushing lift to .653/.638 and the same compression numbers above. At that point, may as well advance your current cam and install 1.8s

 

Torqueonboost, what's your MPH and 60ft?

I get the feeling that you may be restricted to around 300rwkw no matter what you do without changing the LS6 manifold. That seems to be the limit down here on the 5.7. Adding a FAST / big TB on a combo like yours seems to give you that extra 10-20rwkw you mention.

As mentioned, you need more revs and to move the peak past that 6300 rpm or so mark of the LS6. I hear you on the Fast manifold, Inc TB cost. It's more than $3k over here if you need someone to fit and tune like I do. My shop says it's not worth it on my combo, cam is too small. Unlikely to see any improvement.

Ive mentioned on here a few times that for my combo, I really wanted to try the TPis 90mm modified LS6 but can't get it down here.

 

If you want mid range torque then maybe the Summit Ghost cam with the longest runner intake which is the Fast 92 with a 12 inch runner vs the 11 inch runner of the LS6.

 

Agree 100% with this. Torqueonboost, if I were in your shoes, I’d listen to Darth. He accomplished more with a 5.7 build than anyone I’ve ever seen, either here or elsewhere. There might be a N/A 5.7 with more hp and torque out there, but I’ve yet to see it.

 

I like the idea of going for more lift or trying the other cam you mentioned.
Some people advanced this cam at 4 degrees but I thought i would of ran out of top end and have clearance issues..
So the reason power a Dropped after 6400 was due to inlet manifold restrictions and comp.
What inlet manifold would you recommend. Im worried about going beyond 6700 because of the standard bottom end limitations.
With 653 lift will I have issues using LS7 lifters.
Also will I have piston to valve clearance issues?
What is the maximum I can take off the head with 653 lift to achieve the higher compression.
really appreciate your help with this.
This is my 5th LS1 Powered commodore. Below I have added what I used in the past and what power it made
217 223 600in & ex, stock stall decked heads 270rwkw 5500rpm
224 228 110 @ 600 lift Mild head work stick valves 315rwkw 5900 rpm in a 6 speed manual
226 232 @ 112 598in 600 ex 280 rwkw 6200 rpm stock 241 heads.
228 228 114 600in 600ex 280 rwkw 5500 rpm. Completely died off after 5500. It may have been an issue with the car. Bit if a nightmare
232 234 110 598 in 605 ex 265 rwkw. Stock heads Manual 6 speed
A friend of mine tried the same cam with 114 lsa with stock heads in a manual and made 280rwkw
All Run on the same dyno

 

Very interesting results on your Commodores. Surprised to see that 315 rwkw result! Was that a stock manifold? I've had basically the exact same combo in my M6 Monaro but 3 different cams.


I had a 214/217 .600 /.587 112+4 cam, with stock LS6 manifold and TB, Higgins 241, Mafless OTRCAI and short headers into 100 cell cats and 2.5" exhaust, it made 296 rwkw on the shop that built it Dynolog Dyno. Ran it on a second shops Dyno Dynamics dyno, made 294 rwkw. Very nice low to mid range and reved to nearly 6800 rpm but had stopped making power well before that.

Ran mid 12s in the stinking heat with 2.0 60ft. Launching around 2000 rpm due to the LS7 clutch complaining with any more rpm. It was 100% street trim, I just drove it straight onto the strip with normal tyres, full tank etc. I think nearly 1800kg with me in it.

I then swapped it for a 218/226 .595/.587 116+4 Cam Motion cam. Only other change was new pushrods, trunnion upgrade, LS7 lifters and 1218 springs. Made 280 rwkw on the shop that built it (different shop). Ran it on the same second shops Dyno Dynamics Dyno as above, 258 rwkw! This thing felt like it had no low to mid range and died at about 5500 rpm. Tried to convince myself otherwise but I hated it.

I then swapped to a TSP 216/220 .600/.600 112+2, making 272 rwkw on that same second shops Dyno Dynamics Dyno. Bottom to mid range was nearly all back (I think the +2 advance hurts this) and it revs hard up top. I shift nearly at 7000 rpm but it peaks around 6300 and then runs mostly flat. I think it's the manifold holding me back here. Dyno sheet below. Only other change was new dual valve springs and moving to a VCM OTRCAI.

However, what I later found out was that the second shops Dyno Dynamics dyno was not the same Dyno between my 294 rwkw cam 1 run and the other 2 cam runs. They changed to a new 4WD Dyno Dynamics dyno that read much lower. So, you can't read too much into the comparison between Cam 1 and Cam 2 & 3. Runs for cams 2 & 3 were back to back though. I reckon on most Dyno, my current cam would run in the 290s like Cam 1. I should test that theory.

 

If you can find a fast 90 or 92 used, either would be a substantial upgrade. If you have to buy new, I'd just go to a fast 102, since you don't save much money going with a fast 92. I would get the LSXr and not the various runninr length options, etc. Get the longest runners in the simplest package.
No issue at all with LS7 lifters. Just be sure they are real LS7 lifters and not LS7-spec lifters. If they're "LS7 lifters" but surprisingly cheap, they're knock offs.
You should not have PTV issues. Peak lift has nothing to do with PTV clearance. The valves are at peak lift at around 100 degrees after top dead center. the piston is 2" away at that point. Overlap and duration are usually what will cause PTV issues.
I've taken stock heads down to 60cc. If you wanted you could grab a set of 862 or 706 truck heads and start with 61cc chambers. You could mill them down to 58cc with no worries.
It's a bit tricky to isolate, but the 224/228 cam likely did well due to that early IVC. Builds really good cylinder pressure. I'd wager it had the best torque number by far as well. The manual trans vs the others being auto does compound it a little bit. It's not unusual for an auto to dyno lower than a similarly build T56 but then outrun the T56.