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It sounds like someone either blew the stock LS1 or wanted to keep the stock LS1 and plunked a cheap 5.3 in its place.
That's my assumption I on as well but I'll never truly know what happened to the original engine. Will remain a mystery forever. Just trying to make the best of a crappy situation at this point and ill look at sourcing a different engine later on but for now i just want this to be reliable and run well with the mild modifications ive done to it (assuming frost ever tunes and returns my computer to me?????) No computer.....no car!!!
Anyway the company Taylor that makes spark plug wires is who makes (or did make them ....past tense) these spacer max valve cover spacers for the perimeter style heads and covers.....sadly they discontinued making these spacers (see pics for reference) so I ordered a 3/4 inch thick pair from ICT that fit the normal centerbolt style 1999 on up LS engines and I'll have to try to do some welding and machining to these to make them work since there is no one else that makes anything for these perimeter style heads and covers. The only options for us that have these 1997 and 1998 perimeter style heads and covers is basically to chuck these heads and covers in the trash and source center bolt style heads and covers if you want problem or trouble free methods of getting things to work unfortunately. These perimeter style heads are just a major PITA to get to work with or how I see it. So I was going to hit the local junk yard to see what heads they have and check the casting numbers and see if i can acquire an inexpensive set of heads that I can swap my new springs i upgraded my perimeter heads to and make sure they are not cracked and if they are cheap enough grab a pair and swap them because this is becoming a pain in the *** that the entire aftermarket seemingly has dropped all support and parts and part devopment for these 2 years of LS engine heads across the board for specific parts...
however parts like springs and rockers and valves and all parts that are all universal to all LS heads regardless of year are able to fit just about every LS head so those parts are
(CONTINUED BELOW PHOTOS) Perimeter bolt style spacermax spacers for 1997 and 1998 heads are no longer being made by taylor or anyone anymore..... only option is to fabricate your own from a centerbolt style spacer or buy centerbolt heads and trash the perimeter style heads those are your only 2 options.... sucks but thats how it is. Centerbolt style spacers ...i will try to alter these to fit the perimeter style heads but if they wont seal then ill source some stock 99 up centerbolt style heads and covers since thats the only recourse at this time since there is no longer any support from the aftermarket for perimeter style heads in LS engine family anymore.
(CONTINUED FROM ABOVE)
obviously still readily available but anything having to deal with the perimeter style are now all poooffffed and nothing is available anymore so these heads are basically worthless and no one would ever even buy them for just that reason... no point in trying to sell them or give them away...
Thanks all........
Jay.
Last edited by 41ApacheWarParty; 12-01-2022 at 01:48 PM.
The new rockers have to have better fitment than those great big gold ones!
they fit better yes but I have a feeling my issue is the damn heads. These perimeter bolt heads mine are #806 castings, will not let the rockers fit and to boot I can't get the rockers to sit down in the girdle flush they include 16 shims to put under the girdle and with 2 shims under each girdle lifting them up higher the head perimeter bosses still interfere too much with these rockers. See photos for the 2 issues I. Running into.....
So I am just going to order new rocker arm bolts and reinstall the stock rockers in this damn thing... I'm so annoyed with summit and all saying things like these fit in all ls heads when it's more than apparent they have never tested their products in these heads at all and gee these heads have only been around for 25 plus years now. Even if I take my die grinder and clearance the heads a bit which I am fine with doing.... i cant get them to sit down inside the head in the cradles and i have 2 shims under each bolt on the cradle girdle or stands whatever you wish to call them.
unless anyone has any suggestions.... i am wide open to any advice. Or how much are a set of 243 heads off of a different engine??? Would I have the same problem with the height of the rocker stands and not allow these to sit deep enough??? Pass side with no shims under the stands showing a better arm to head fitment but still cannot get the shafts to sit down where they need to be in the groove properly Pass side showing as far down i can get the rockers in the stands with stock pushrods in place and no cam lift. Pass side shown with no shims under the stands for illustration purposes. The shims do help lift the stands up but the set only provides 16 shims so max I can do is 2 under each bolt. I don't have any more and it would be a little silly needing .333 or 3/8ths to 7/16ths shims thickness to get these to work unless that is normal???? Seems excessive to me but if any engine builders are seeing this as normal I'll get longer bolts and more shims I mic'ed the shims pair and its an even 1/8th inch under each bolt between the stand and the head rocker pedestal mounts. if that's what will allow it to work??? As you finger tighten the bolts into the stands the pair of rockers move a little bit to the right making them touch the bolt bosses inside the heads Head will need some grinding to allow these to fit because the perimeter bolt bosses are just in the way no matter what i do.... Drivers side tdc#1 and no cam lift (sitting on base cam circle not a lobe) rockers wont sit down with 2 shims under each bolt between the stands and the heads.
You can’t just put more shims under the stands to make this setup work with fitment/clearance. The shims are used for getting the geometry right, which will determine the wipe pattern on the tip of the valves. It takes a good bit of setup work to get the geometry right. Seems like you are dead set on using this engine, so I’d use these heads for doorstops, and find yourself a set of 243/799’s. You can find a good set for $400-$500. Your current heads are good for nothing really. I don’t think you could sell them for very much at all, if anything. The rocker setup you’ve bought will work on any cathedral casting. At the same time, you can find a pullout 5.3 with decent heads at a yard for same money as the 243’s will cost. Before you keep throwing money at this, you should do some reading up on what’s what, with the LS platform. You can spend days researching this stuff online. Don’t ever take for granted what a salesman at a parts warehouse tells you about fitment. Study up for yourself what works and then pick your own parts. It will save you a lot of money and time, along with frustration.
Have a set of 853's taking up space in garage that need used or recycled ♻️ into beer cans.
Let me know if you'd like these junkyard 853's. They'll need clean up, valves, springs valve seals, decked & checked. They are off of my 91RS's LS1 and were used on a turbo set up for a while. Totally AS IS
Your's for the price of shipping.
Can maybe even find valve covers and include for a small cost.
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; 12-04-2022 at 07:09 AM.
Have a set of 853's taking up space in garage that need used or recycled ♻️ into beer cans.
Let me know if you'd like these junkyard 853's. They'll need clean up, valves, springs valve seals, decked & checked. They are off of my 91RS's LS1 and were used on a turbo set up for a while. Totally AS IS
Your's for the price of shipping.
Can maybe even find valve covers and include for a small cost.
Have a set of 853's taking up space in garage that need used or recycled ♻️ into beer cans.
Let me know if you'd like these junkyard 853's. They'll need clean up, valves, springs valve seals, decked & checked. They are off of my 91RS's LS1 and were used on a turbo set up for a while. Totally AS IS
Your's for the price of shipping.
Can maybe even find valve covers and include for a small cost.
Offering them up for the cost of shipping to help out your fellow man?
Have a set of 853's taking up space in garage that need used or recycled ♻️ into beer cans.
Let me know if you'd like these junkyard 853's. They'll need clean up, valves, springs valve seals, decked & checked. They are off of my 91RS's LS1 and were used on a turbo set up for a while. Totally AS IS
Your's for the price of shipping.
Can maybe even find valve covers and include for a small cost.
can you send me a photo of these??? I thought 853 had the same perimeter style valve covers as mine or is that the 863 these stampings can get confusing in my mind after a while. Or are these the center bolt style??? I have the whole new springs keepers seals and all when I did my swap for the new cam so I'll be able to move them over to another set of heads without any muss or fuss because this engine has not run with all this stuff added just will need new valve covers which I can pickup a polished set for 125..150 or so and new bolts and head gaskets. Might as well do this now while the engine is all torn down and exhaust manifold bolts are the only thing to remove along with the head bolts of course. Are the port and chamber sizes of these heads similar to what the ls1 heads I have now are??? Are the valve sizes the same??? Do they flow alot less in comparison you think??? If any clearancing is needed for these rocker arms, I'd feel much much better about doing them off the engine vs sitting on top. Then toss em in the parts washer tank and get em get washed up and cleaned and ready to get installed if they are twisted I can get them decked and trued up at the head shop around the corner I'm sure cost wont be too bad to do. I need to get my big block heads done anyway so might as well drop all 4 off at same time if they are not terribly busy. Thank you sir....
Let me know where you are so I can do some shipping figures
Jay.
Last edited by 41ApacheWarParty; 12-04-2022 at 11:01 AM.
OK, will go see if I can find the 853's and fake somw pictures 📸
Stock LS1 heads, the worst flowing are the 806's by a couple of cfm. The 241 flows a couple of cfm more than the 853 due to different casting process. The 853 & 241 are basically same after porting.
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; 12-04-2022 at 12:04 PM.
OK, will go see if I can find the 853's and fake somw pictures 📸
Stock LS1 heads, the worst flowing are the 806's by a couple of cfm. The 241 flows a couple of cfm more than the 853 due to different casting process. The 853 & 241 are basically same after porting.
Okay so in the long run it will make no to extremely little difference over what I have or could get with the 241 heads. Okay well I'm fine with swapping all my valves springs keepers and seals etc over to new heads and drop them off to get decked and true up the deck surface, that is fine. Would you want these ls1 heads in return or something else perhaps??? Let me know your wish list because i have a ton of stuff i need to clear out from many toolboxes to parts, engines, you name it my garage is overflowing so let me know if you are looking for anything and I'll see what I have.
thank you sir...greatly appreciated... your help has been invaluable with this nightmare project
Jay
lolol fake some pictures hahaha that's a good one.... I know you meant to say take but just thought that was funny...ty sir.....
can you send me a photo of these??? I thought 853 had the same perimeter style valve covers as mine or is that the 863 these stampings can get confusing in my mind after a while. Or are these the center bolt style???
Pictures of the 853 LS1 heads off of a 2000 Z28 Camaro.
I have the whole new springs keepers seals and all when I did my swap for the new cam so I'll be able to move them over to another set of heads without any muss or fuss because this engine has not run with all this stuff added just will need new valve covers which I can pickup a polished set for 125..150 or so and new bolts and head gaskets.
The heads are free plus shipping because they need cleaned & decked as mentioned etc. May want to use your valves too.
Are the port and chamber sizes of these heads similar to what the ls1 heads I have now are??? Are the valve sizes the same??? Do they flow alot less in comparison you think???
806's like you have are the worst flowing of the stock LS1 heads by a couple of cfm. The 853's are slightly better. The 241's slightly better still. CNC porting basically makes all three LS1 castings about equal in cfm flow. The ports & chambers are similar.
If you want a set of kick ***, fresh ready to bolt on Advanced Induction ported 241's with welded 58cc chambers, I have a set.
If any clearancing is needed for these rocker arms, I'd feel much much better about doing them off the engine vs sitting on top. Then toss em in the parts washer tank and get em get washed up and cleaned and ready to get installed if they are twisted I can get them decked and trued up at the head shop around the corner I'm sure cost wont be too bad to do. I need to get my big block heads done anyway so might as well drop all 4 off at same time if they are not terribly busy. Thank you sir....
Let me know where you are so I can do some shipping figures
Jay.
If your interested send me your zip code by PM or post it. I will do the shipping estimate. Cost of shipping is the cost of box, packaging materials and whatever UPS Ground is from my zip code to yours. If you're not interested, no worries those 853's will make a nice beer cans someday after recycling.
Pictures of the 853 LS1 heads off of a 2000 Z28 Camaro.
The heads are free plus shipping because they need cleaned & decked as mentioned etc. May want to use your valves too.
806's like you have are the worst flowing of the stock LS1 heads by a couple of cfm. The 853's are slightly better. The 241's slightly better still. CNC porting basically makes all three LS1 castings about equal in cfm flow. The ports & chambers are similar.
If you want a set of kick ***, fresh ready to bolt on Advanced Induction ported 241's with welded 58cc chambers, I have a set.
If your interested send me your zip code by PM or post it. I will do the shipping estimate. Cost of shipping is the cost of box, packaging materials and whatever UPS Ground is from my zip code to yours. If you're not interested, no worries those 853's will make a nice beer cans someday after recycling.
Okay Wade sir.... I forwarded you the $ you requested to the email address you provided so if you can fire those on out when you can that will be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your invaluable help. I am not going to yank off my heads until these new ones arrive but I did loosen the exhaust header bolts and they came out or eased out without any issues and are all about half way backed out. I dont want to losen the head bolts just yet until I get new heads and can make sure no issues from the machine shop for if this fails to work I'll have to reinstall all my stock rocker arm cradles and get new rocker arm bolts and call it a day so this is my last chance to get everything done correctly and working with these improved parts or it will all have to be returned or saved for a new project down the road at some point..
Thank you again Wade. You are saving my project from utter disaster
Before you keep throwing money at this, you should do some reading up on what’s what, with the LS platform. You can spend days researching this stuff online.
Okay Wade sir.... I forwarded you the $ you requested to the email address you provided so if you can fire those on out when you can that will be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your invaluable help. I am not going to yank off my heads until these new ones arrive but I did loosen the exhaust header bolts and they came out or eased out without any issues and are all about half way backed out. I dont want to losen the head bolts just yet until I get new heads and can make sure no issues from the machine shop for if this fails to work I'll have to reinstall all my stock rocker arm cradles and get new rocker arm bolts and call it a day so this is my last chance to get everything done correctly and working with these improved parts or it will all have to be returned or saved for a new project down the road at some point..
Thank you again Wade. You are saving my project from utter disaster
Jay
Jay, I should be be able to get them shipped out and on the way tomorrow. Will send track info etc. Happy to help when I can as others have helped me before as well.
Jay, I should be be able to get them shipped out and on the way tomorrow. Will send track info etc. Happy to help when I can as others have helped me before as well.
Well then ill pass on the help to others if/when the circumstance presents itself I'll save these heads and **** ton of other parts that others can have as well and try to help them out of their issues. I'm just thankful my computer is back and yes the skip shift you mentioned before I asked to have removed so if I take the car for its test drive and it wants to go from 1st to 4th I'll know that was not do e and depending on the new MAF style over the stock 1998 MAF I'll know if he tuned it or not. I hope so I don't need the hassle of having to yank the computer out and pay yet someone else to.tune it and have more time the car is down for the count...... we will just have to see but I'll call the local machine shop now and see cost of decking and cleaning these and see if it's going to take a long time or if they can bang these out in a few days. Thank you sir...again. your help has been invaluable
Wade, you win the internet today. Pretty swell of you doing this my man. #payingitforward
according to UPS site the heads should be here this Saturday 10th of Dec. I am thrilled and called the head shop. Quoted me to clean up the heads and true up or "Deck" them is 80 dollars per head and only a few hours turn around time so same day or next day so I hope to pull the garbage heads off and see what head bolt configuration I have because I cannot figure out if I have an L59 or LM7 block based on the passenger front block pad shows:
02F06
I don't know what that means and there are no other block markings i can find on this thing. I searched with my borescope and nothing anywhere I could find so I'll pull the heads off tomorrow and order a pair of 3 layer MLS felpro gaskets and a cheap set of TTY bolts from Amazon and I'll check the lifters while I have it apart and make sure none have any issues and clean the block surfaces and make sure the bores and pistons all look good with a visible cross hatch. And before I even take the heads to the machine shop I'll make sure these rocker arms fit inside the heads and do any clearancing of the valve cover flange walls to make sure I have a 1/16th of an inch room around each rocker arm and that they seat and bottom out properly as opposed to the perimeter style where they would not sit down in the stands all the way for unknown reasons. Anyway Wade you are a lifesaver and a car saver and project rescuer and i cannot thank you enough for your charity to my cause..
Thank you sir
Your Help has been invaluable both advice and of course the parts themselves.
I wish you a merry Christmas and wonderful 2023
I'll let you know what happens at the machine shop as I start to get this all back together after heads get cleaned up and decked.
12-01-2022, 01:20 PM
