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For an operational assembly. Why can't you realize that my example was for clearance purposes only? Clearance between the rocker and head. Was my explanation so far off? Again, I wasn't giving advice for final assembly, that's a few months away still.
Anyway, can I send you some free parts to buy your friendship like Sir Wade. Tell me what you need and I'll get it shipped right out.
Not close enough for mock up? Why is it on center? (not my picture)
For an operational assembly. Why can't you realize that my example was for clearance purposes only? Clearance between the rocker and head. Was my explanation so far off? Again, I wasn't giving advice for final assembly, that's a few months away still.
Anyway, can I send you some free parts to buy your friendship like Sir Wade. Tell me what you need and I'll get it shipped right out.
Not close enough for mock up? Why is it on center? (not my picture)
Why? that's what he calls you and I have a shed full of parts.
Header bolts, Stock rockers. Things he said he might need. I can send that stuff and if he doesn't use it it won't be a problem. I have several different sized pushrod sets too.
Maybe throw some stock stuff on there and run it until the backorder parts get there. I couldn't wait that long.
I just want to hear success made..
Why? that's what he calls you and I have a shed full of parts.
Header bolts, Stock rockers. Things he said he might need. I can send that stuff and if he doesn't use it it won't be a problem. I have several different sized pushrod sets too.
Maybe throw some stock stuff on there and run it until the backorder parts get there. I couldn't wait that long.
I just want to hear success made..
Your comment was an unprovoked direct personal attack on me by implying I buy friends.
Your comment was an unprovoked direct personal attack on me by implying I buy friends.
Nothing more, nothing less.
What do you want me to do now?
I'm not giving excuses, there are none.
I didn't think it would be taken as a personal attack, and I didn't mean it that way.
The Sir Wade thing I thought was an expression of great gratitude, so you got a friend, but not really because it's just a forum. But I know he appreciates it regardless.
If I was your personal friend in real life and you helped me I'd start calling you Sir Wade after seeing this thread. I think it's a light hearted way to joke around, it's a catchy name.
But I have a problem mixing real life, and words on a forum. You know if it was face to face real life it would be different than this here.
So you GAINED a friend, you didn't buy one.
I could edit the post, but you quoted it, and I'd assume you want it to stay up so people can see it. You tell me if I can do anything.
What do you want me to do now?
I'm not giving excuses, there are none.
I didn't think it would be taken as a personal attack, and I didn't mean it that way.
The Sir Wade thing I thought was an expression of great gratitude, so you got a friend, but not really because it's just a forum. But I know he appreciates it regardless.
If I was your personal friend in real life and you helped me I'd start calling you Sir Wade after seeing this thread. I think it's a light hearted way to joke around, it's a catchy name.
But I have a problem mixing real life, and words on a forum. You know if it was face to face real life it would be different than this here.
So you GAINED a friend, you didn't buy one.
I could edit the post, but you quoted it, and I'd assume you want it to stay up so people can see it. You tell me if I can do anything.
It's very simple a stand up man or woman, in real life or online apologizes in this circumstance. If you decide to apologize and actually do so, it will be a win for you by gaining respect in several folks eyes. It will also be a win for the forum as an unfortunate turn of events can be forgotten.
The Ball is in your court.
Being civil to each other doesn't cost us anything. That's easy for folks to forget on occasion. I have to remind myself daily when online being civil and nice to others doesn't cost me anything and being civil helps the various forums visited.
Sometimes I eat Crow and apologize too on occasion...nature of the beast.
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; 12-29-2022 at 05:42 PM.
It's very simple a stand up man or woman, in real life or online apologizes in this circumstance. If you decide to apologize and actually do so, it will be a win for you by gaining respect in several folks eyes. It will also be a win for the forum as an unfortunate turn of events can be forgotten.
The Ball is in your court.
Being civil to each other doesn't cost us anything. That's easy for folks to forget on occasion. I have to remind myself daily when online being civil and nice to others doesn't cost me anything and being civil helps the various forums visited.
Sometimes I eat Crow and apologize too on occasion...nature of the beast.
Sorry I offended you.
Nope I'm not answering to a grown man who got his feelings hurt by the boogeyman on the internet. Never in my life have I been demanded an apology by a grown man and it's not starting now. YOU need to grow some ******* skin.
No one has ever apologized to me, I never demanded one.
I've earned your respect by offending you and apologizing? Thats not how respect is earned.
Now go ban me, I don't give a ****, join the rest of the world and cancel people that hurt you (misgendering, EVERYBODYS RASCIST, etc) follow their lead and be one with them. Demasculate the world and create a bunch of pussies, you can see here that it's working. Who the **** demands an apology? "I'll have you banned" You're a ******* ***** and everyone who acts like and agrees with you can go **** yourselves.
Last edited by BigBlackCamaro; 01-07-2023 at 08:17 AM.
Here we go again...
I got my feeler gauges out and the thinnest blade is a blade of .008 thickness and I can't slip that between the rocker and head on the 4 corners so I might just file off a few thousandths to make these fit because I'm getting completely disgusted with all this nonsense. ....
I don't think I will file off enough to structurally alter the strength of these rockers but again they don't fit. They are close but too close for comfort and with aluminum expansion with heat they are going to grind themselves into place and I don't want aluminum shards or dust floating around thru the whole engine and score bearings and such.
What do you all think? Or would you return them? Passenger side front number 2 exhaust valve...rocker arm with .008 feeler gauge not able to slide around behind rocker and head rail Drivers side odd number cylinder bank Passenger side even number cylinder bank
I personally would return any set of aftermarket roller rockers and get a set of stock rockers with trunnion upgrade done. They're just not worth the hassle you're going through for no gains.
Don't those blue rockers look purdy...I'd clearance the cylinder heads before grinding on the rocker arms but you're most likely still going to make contact with the valve cover and have to run a spacer. Notice the difference in room from a stock rocker arm compared to the aftermarket one?
It was minor clearance work needed but I ended up having to clearance the corners of my cylinder heads in order to make these work. I even had to purcahse a 1/2" spacer from ICT Billet which required more modifications such as making sleeves for the longer bolts and I also had to clerance the spacer for every rocker arm in order for the adjuster nuts to stop making contact with it. In other words a real PITA and really not worth it for an adjustable roller rocker arm unless you plan on running a LLSR.
I'm still rolling with the stock valve covers and the spacer but plans are to do a coil relocate and run aftermarket tall valve covers.
Your either going to have to message the rockers themselves, or cut on the heads a little to get the clearance you need to run these rockers. I’d return them and go with stock rockers on this particular build myself, if I were you. I mentioned this waaaaay back in post number 8. It’s not worth the hassle to run aftermarket rockers on suck a mild build. The stock rockers are stronger and will outlast the aftermarket rockers by a mile.
Don't those blue rockers look purdy...I'd clearance the cylinder heads before grinding on the rocker arms but you're most likely still going to make contact with the valve cover and have to run a spacer. Notice the difference in room from a stock rocker arm compared to the aftermarket one?
It was minor clearance work needed but I ended up having to clearance the corners of my cylinder heads in order to make these work. I even had to purcahse a 1/2" spacer from ICT Billet which required more modifications such as making sleeves for the longer bolts and I also had to clerance the spacer for every rocker arm in order for the adjuster nuts to stop making contact with it. In other words a real PITA and really not worth it for an adjustable roller rocker arm unless you plan on running a LLSR.
I'm still rolling with the stock valve covers and the spacer but plans are to do a coil relocate and run aftermarket tall valve covers.
I already bought the valve cover spacers and my spacers came with the longer 8 bolts with the sleeves so you dont collapse the covers and 2 sets of those blue poly rubber gaskets as well.
i finished up installing the remote knock sensors last night and today while the car is up in the air I'll do the remote coil pack install I'm just not sure exactly where I want to put them because I don't want them super close to the headers and my wire extension harnesses arenonly 3 feet and my new taylor wires I got a universal set and also ordered the ls style coil pack boots from summit instead of the hei style they come with and they are only so long and the longer the wire the more resistance they impede the spark energy so I was thinking maybe mounting them in the 2 little cubby holes or traps under the headlights if the wires reach. I don't see how getting them on the frame is possible but I'll keep looking and evaluating. Anyway are those stainless steel rockers? If I can I will grind the head and make a trap to catch the aluminum shards so I'll just remove all the rockers again and clearance the heads which I guess in hind sight I should have done to begin with before I even installed them. I'll make that a new practice is anytime I open up an ls for a cam swap and head milling just clearance for rockers so no matter what is picked brand wise it will have enough allowable room to fit. Very nice job clearancing your heads sir. Looks like a cnc computer did it with taking the actual heel of the rockers shape and programmed it to cut a relief for that identical but a smidge larger. Well done. I'm just going to assume you never had any issues with clearance?
"Old buzzard" you mentioned pushing the feeler gauge behind the rocker is not the appropriate method to check spacing? Can you explain what you mean and tell me if there is a proper procedure for checking clearance other than eyeballing it? Maybe I can learn something here because I just had no other idea what to do and the .008 feeler gauge was the thinnest one in the tool and it's as flexible as paper being so thin. I'm open to suggestions and ideas here so thank you in advance of any info on proper procedure info provided.
thanks all...
Note...... I watched more of Richard Holdners rocker videos and he even states that stock rockers while proven strong and durable and a level above most factory rockers were never meant to be used on engines with much more than stock cams and springs so when folks put in cam lifts of like .585 or .600 on up to .700 or even higher into the .740... up to even .800 or more the stockers will implode the trunions and the trunion upgrade, while might give you a warm fuzzy feeling and will help improve the valvetrain, the design of these stock arms were never meant to handle these much increased spring seat and compressed pressures and much higher cam lift profiles ànd its only a matter of time when...they will fail. He even mentions most people are getting away with it but he says it's borrowed time and if you want to beef it up that's your best idea. He does not mention any brand names at all or recommend any brands or ratios but he tested I think lunati 1.72 ratio arms and showed a marked gain in HP and torque and while that's great it's the reduced friction and added strength for longevity that was the win/win.
thanks all
Hope everyone has a happy new year and a fun profitable 2023
One thing to do if you have the ability to do so is hold a shop vac hose in one hand and set the tip right next to where you're grinding with your other hand. It may not get every chip, but it will get a large portion of them.
Notice the difference in room from a stock rocker arm compared to aftermarket ones?
WHY CANT THESE COMPANIES MAKE ROCKERS THAT FIT??? IS IT SOOOO DIFFICULT TO TAKE THE MESUREMENTS OF A STOCK ARM AND GET A FEW HEADS AND VERIFY THEIR OWN PRODUCTS FITMENT? Or am I asking too much that when we all buy parts that they fit????????? This is 3 separate companies now that I see won't fit (and more at end of this post)
Harland Sharp
Pro form
Pro comp/Speed master
or is it these fit something else such as a SBC for example and they made them able to work but NOT a direct fit in an LS and not have to retool their manufacturer facility for another type of setup.....
I get cost containment in a business...totally understand that aspect but if the **** don't fit then wtf? You are wasting everyone's time money efforts and all to find out tahhh dahhhh these don't fit either like the 48 other brands that don't fit. I do get the pro forms and Harland sharps are identical and just sold as a rebranded part that happens in most manufacturing these days world wide. My Poulan wild thing chainsaw is the same as the craftsman, Husqvarna, and like 5 or 6 other brands all made by xxxx and they change the color of the plastic for each company and the sticker badging but they are all identical. Lots of companies do this for various reasons.... such as territories like I wanted a lawn boy snow blower and only Toro was in this northeast USA territory so I had to get one shipped in from a retailer that had them in their Canadian inventory and shipped it to their Pennsylvania store for me to pickup. So anyway like these companies are all manufacturing these parts based off of inaccurate measurements and I find it bizarre that none of them fit????????? Not sure what brand 01CamaroSSTx has shown in his photos but they look like one of the stainless steel models that a few brands make and he had to clearance the heads to get them to fit as well. I just don't get why alot of these companies are all making the same type of part (rocker arms in this case) that does not fit. I do get the reason my old perimeter style heads had issues but now that I upgraded the heads to centerbolt style and still have fitment issues it blows my mind these companies don't seem to be testing their own **** or they would clearly see their kit don't fit worth a **** and they should git their **** kit to fit without us having to hit their **** with a grinder that makes it fit like spit and jit on a bit tit .... lolol not sure where that came from but its funny...
sorry just annoyed that seems a big handfull of these companies are having the same exact problems getting their **** to fit and causing us to grind into our cylinder heads and if we dont grind our heads propey or enough the arms in alot of manufacturers brands and models of arms ultimately grind the head and the arms both and eventuallg snap and fail and break... Seen below are just a few random photos i sourced off this site from other valvetrain threads...
okay time to get the head taped up and the shop vac out and the die grinder out and clearance the heads and then ill be able to get this back together. 🙄 👀
Thanks all....sorry for the rant just disgusted and annoyed.
Jay Perhaps this Scorpion arm hit the perimeter head bolt boss flute or whatever you want to call it but it ended up grinding and snapped it.....regardless if it hit the back heel edge or the corners but boom snapped it...... Lunati .... yet another that hit the edge of the head and ground itself and snapped it apart..... Comp golds that hit the head and ground and snapped it in pieces....
One thing to do if you have the ability to do so is hold a shop vac hose in one hand and set the tip right next to where you're grinding with your other hand. It may not get every chip, but it will get a large portion of them.
I'll snap a pic when I get started but I was going to do exactly that. I will make a flexible cardboard insert and tape that to the inside edge of the head and hold the shop vac flat hose end and turn it on so as it grinds its sucking up the shards and fi gers crossed it works. I saw Joe do this on an episode of garage squad... he had to clearance something and used an extra set of hands to suck all the filings into the shop vac as he did his work. I just wish I used my brain and ground these spots before I put the heads on but I just THOUGHT AND ASSUMED I could buy parts that fit when the fitment guide says YES THESE FIT A 1998 TRANS AM.
I also might tape over the exposed head bolts or hole recesses inside the head where the oil drains back down into the engine and make a very small thin vacuum tube extension to get into really small spots to make sure no filings are left behind.......
I don't want to wipe a cam or rod or crank bearing in the first 5 minutes on initial start up.... and have all this work and money and energy be for nothing other than learning the hard way.
Thank you LS1Formularion sir for the suggestion. Like minds..... Best way to prevent filings getting down in there.
12-28-2022, 06:08 PM
