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Some of you guys probably already know my other thread but to make it short and easy I figured I just post a new one for this specific question.
On a new top end build I was having a lot of valvetrain noise and ended up pulling the lifters (Summits Morel 7717). I found what you seen in the pictures below. There are at least 3 that have raised areas on the lifter body. This was with about 50 mi on them with good oil pressure (checked with VC off, dash gauge and mechanical gauge).
From what I can tell it looks like the lifter body was pushed out during the assembly process, creating the rasied or bulging areas ((circled in red) I guess a better name for them is burrs). Then it chewed up in lifter bore sending metal throughout, causing the rest of the marks you see. There are several deep enough that I can feel with a pick and the area overall feels rougher than the rest. So what are people's thoughts? I'm thinking they are junk and I will need new ones. Cam looks/feels ok. Lifter bores do have some rougher feeling (bank 2 only), but I put the original lifters in and they move smoothly.
As was suggested in the other thread, I'm willing to bet the lifters either A) aren't concentric or B) are slightly too large in diameter. Get a mic and check at different points around the circumference, and also check the overall diameter.
As was suggested in the other thread, I'm willing to bet the lifters either A) aren't concentric or B) are slightly too large in diameter. Get a mic and check at different points around the circumference, and also check the overall diameter.
Spun the bodies up while going up and down on both parts of the lifter and all measured .8415-.8420. Which is the same as the original ones that came out. But at this point I'd expect them to have been worn down.
How did the lifter bores look where the worst sounding Morel's lifters were?
Tired a mirror and a decent bore scope and didn't see anything really different from the "good" ones, but its hard to get a good look. Thought putting in the original lifters would be the best check because of that.
I'll also say that the side with 2 burrs on the lifters was the noisiest and the most damaged. The other side (drivers) was pretty quiet, looks way better and only had 1 small "burr".
How did the lifter bores look where the worst sounding Morel's lifters were?
^^^^^^^THIS^^^Is the important thing now!!! He needs to see if the lifters "rock" in the same plane as the lifter scoring. Those high spots look like the body was dropped, or somehow impacted something pretty hard, during production. Hopefully the lifter bores are OK. Lifters are a dime a dozen compared to sleeving a lifter bore!!
^^^^^^^THIS^^^Is the important thing now!!! He needs to see if the lifters "rock" in the same plane as the lifter scoring. Those high spots look like the body was dropped, or somehow impacted something pretty hard, during production. Hopefully the lifter bores are OK. Lifters are a dime a dozen compared to sleeving a lifter bore!!
The bore is my biggest concern as well. The tooling marks on the Morel's are much more evident vs the GM originals as you can see in the picture below. Morel's on top of GM lifter in picture.
Also here is a video to how much up an down movement is in the bore. You can see the oil being pushed around but you cant feel any up, down, side to side movement.
Well I called Summit today and went through everything with their tech dept. He said it was a warranty issue, but when he put me through to the sales dept to get them shipped, they denied it because I didnt keep RPM above 2k for 20 minutes. I'm surprised since these are roller lifters, not that I'm an expert but I dont know anyone who does that for rollers.
Agreed. That’s for flat tappet lifters only. Roller lifters require zero break-in. Call back and if you hear this nonsense again, ask for someone else.
Well I called Summit today and went through everything with their tech dept. He said it was a warranty issue, but when he put me through to the sales dept to get them shipped, they denied it because I didnt keep RPM above 2k for 20 minutes. I'm surprised since these are roller lifters, not that I'm an expert but I dont know anyone who does that for rollers.
A female phone rep at summit denied a warranty of mine for a torque converter because it "wasn't right for my application" I kept telling her that people put 3600 rpm converters in stock ls1 f bodies since they came out.
She said but it only needs to be 1800 rpm stall speed.
Flat out denied my warranty for a defective converter.
I asked to talk to her supervisor and this guy said yea, theres no way (the converter they sold me) should be stalling at 4200 rpm when its rated at 2800 to 3200. He started my warranty thank God.
Their customer service has gone to **** lately. You need to call back in my opinion.
its threads like this thats going to make me not sleep good for a couple nights, i just put these same lifters in a fresh forged lq4. only fired it up for about 10min so far. it sounds fine so far (untuned at the moment) need to go thrash it on the dyno, if it starts to give me trouble i know where to look.
Thanks everyone for confirming what I was thinking. I'm going to call them back shortly....hopefully I get someone who's had a good nights sleep and enough coffee.
I checked the lifter bores with a telescoping gauge and came up with .8440 (give or take a thou or 2). With the Morel lifters being .8415-.8420 that gives me .0025-.0020. This is a little more than Morel wants (.0015-.0017). Do you guys think this is an issue? The stock ones measure right at .8422-.8420 (again, give or take a thou) and they didnt have any issues.
Originally Posted by Kjduvall
its threads like this thats going to make me not sleep good for a couple nights, i just put these same lifters in a fresh forged lq4. only fired it up for about 10min so far. it sounds fine so far (untuned at the moment) need to go thrash it on the dyno, if it starts to give me trouble i know where to look.
If you dont mind, what springs and lift cam, any chance you measured OD on lifter bodies? So many people have no issue with these and chances are slim you have my kind of luck. If it sounded good already you're probably in the clear. Just out of curiosity, did you get them from Summit?
Talked to Summit. Completely different results from yesterday! Sooo helpful and easy to deal with, I didnt even have to talk to tech dept. Plus, they even knocked $50 off on a set of replacement head gaskets. My faith has been restored!
very mild cam in my opinion, its in a 01 2500hd that needs to drive good. and went forged cause it might get turbo'd down the road and pistons/rods were trashed. cam is tsp chopacabra 214/222 .550/.550 108lsa/106icl springs are the pac 1219 that came with the kit, lifters/trays were from summit. no i didnt measure the lifter bores, i guess i put alot of faith in my guy that does the machine work for me......
Talked to Summit. Completely different results from yesterday! Sooo helpful and easy to deal with, I didnt even have to talk to tech dept. Plus, they even knocked $50 off on a set of replacement head gaskets. My faith has been restored!
This is the service I normally receive from summit!
Man, this scares me, I just ordered the same lifters for my build.
I'm not worried, I put them in my 408 build that I haven't fired up yet, didn't measure them but they didn't seem overly tight or loose. Mine were sitting on the shelf for ~4 months beforeI put them in so probably a different production run. Mine are the "summit part number" 7717 also.
12-31-2022, 10:51 AM
Lifters Junk or Just Breaking In? 
