A4 Cam Swap "quality of life" questions
01-17-2023, 07:39 PM
#1
A4 Cam Swap "quality of life" questions Disclaimer: yes I did a search and found tons of great info but had some other questions. Background info is I'm kind of renewing the car, I hadn't driven it for about 4 years because it was out of state but now it's back with me and I want to do a wellness check as it just turned 101,000 miles. In doing that I figured I may as well kill 2 birds with 1 stone and put a baby cam in while I'm checking out the timing chain/sprockets/valve springs and seals etc. My goal for this swap is to make it as painless as possible so that's what most of these questions are based on. I have no problem doing the standard run of the mill procedures for these items but I'm thinking there are safe ways around them to reduce the cuss word count during the swap.
- On A4 cars, do I need to drop the starter or can I wedge a pry bar in the crank pulley when I'm trying to take it off? I did buy the flywheel locking tool if I need to use it but I've got long tubes on the car and I'd really like to not deal with dropping the starter if possible
- Must the car be lifted on ramps or jack stands for a cam swap or is this mostly technique? I'm thinking it would be way easier to get to the valvesprings and whatnot with the car on the ground and I can get to the timing cover bottom bolts without lifting the car. Maybe there's something under there I'm not thinking about
- On changing valve springs: I've got a borescope that I plan to use to help ensure TDC, plus I just want to see what the pistons are looking like at 100K+. Just looking at #8 makes me cringe because getting to that spark plug is a PITA and I changed them a few thousand miles ago. If I pop out the plug from cylinder 5 (considerably easier to get to) and verify TDC, am I safe to assume that 8 is also at TDC?
- Oil pump and timing chain. This is the part that's freaking me out the most. I've read that on a 100K+ car, dropping the oil pan even slightly is going to open the flood gates so to speak for future leaks. If I get in there and determine the timing chain/sprockets are trashed and have to be replaced, has anyone had success removing the pump without dropping the pan? It looks like a 10mm angled wrench could possibly get in there to loosen the pickup tube bolt? I have no reason to believe the timing chain or sprockets will need to be replaced because I bought the car with 80K miles and it was a 1-owner, bone stock down to the filter older lady situation. I'm 99.9% sure the car was babied it's entire life and the 22K I've put on it have been all street driving. That being said, I did buy an LS2 timing chain with the expectation of installing it unless the chain and gears look absolutely immaculate
- New lifters. I've read a ton about this. Basically, if I have to tear the heads off the car I'm not going to bother with the cam swap and will just rebuild the valvetrain. Am I totally nuts for putting a baby 224R cam in an LS1 without replacing the lifters at 101K? If I was looking at putting some donkey dick cam in the car and revving the **** out of it at the track, obviously I would be replacing those. But for a non-daily driver weekend warrior use case car that has never seen the track or any type of abuse, are the odds in my favor with the stock lifters?
Sorry for the essay and thanks in advance. I know this post probably screams "I'm lazy and don't want to put in the right work" but life around me exists and my time and money to make this swap happen are limited so I'm just trying to see if there are easier ways to get said work done.
- On A4 cars, do I need to drop the starter or can I wedge a pry bar in the crank pulley when I'm trying to take it off? I did buy the flywheel locking tool if I need to use it but I've got long tubes on the car and I'd really like to not deal with dropping the starter if possible
- Must the car be lifted on ramps or jack stands for a cam swap or is this mostly technique? I'm thinking it would be way easier to get to the valvesprings and whatnot with the car on the ground and I can get to the timing cover bottom bolts without lifting the car. Maybe there's something under there I'm not thinking about
- On changing valve springs: I've got a borescope that I plan to use to help ensure TDC, plus I just want to see what the pistons are looking like at 100K+. Just looking at #8 makes me cringe because getting to that spark plug is a PITA and I changed them a few thousand miles ago. If I pop out the plug from cylinder 5 (considerably easier to get to) and verify TDC, am I safe to assume that 8 is also at TDC?
- Oil pump and timing chain. This is the part that's freaking me out the most. I've read that on a 100K+ car, dropping the oil pan even slightly is going to open the flood gates so to speak for future leaks. If I get in there and determine the timing chain/sprockets are trashed and have to be replaced, has anyone had success removing the pump without dropping the pan? It looks like a 10mm angled wrench could possibly get in there to loosen the pickup tube bolt? I have no reason to believe the timing chain or sprockets will need to be replaced because I bought the car with 80K miles and it was a 1-owner, bone stock down to the filter older lady situation. I'm 99.9% sure the car was babied it's entire life and the 22K I've put on it have been all street driving. That being said, I did buy an LS2 timing chain with the expectation of installing it unless the chain and gears look absolutely immaculate
- New lifters. I've read a ton about this. Basically, if I have to tear the heads off the car I'm not going to bother with the cam swap and will just rebuild the valvetrain. Am I totally nuts for putting a baby 224R cam in an LS1 without replacing the lifters at 101K? If I was looking at putting some donkey dick cam in the car and revving the **** out of it at the track, obviously I would be replacing those. But for a non-daily driver weekend warrior use case car that has never seen the track or any type of abuse, are the odds in my favor with the stock lifters?
Sorry for the essay and thanks in advance. I know this post probably screams "I'm lazy and don't want to put in the right work" but life around me exists and my time and money to make this swap happen are limited so I'm just trying to see if there are easier ways to get said work done.
01-18-2023, 04:24 PM
#3
TECH Fanatic
Replace the valve springs and seals that's all you need to do to freshen up a high mileage LS, yours or any other Gen 3 engine of the same age that's been well taken care of.
The springs are the only thing that should need replacing at this point.
Don't touch the oil pan unless the oil pressure is wonky at startup, abnormally low or it raises with engine temp, then you need an oil pump o-ring That's the only reason to pull the pan off. If it's above 30 ish psi hot and gets near 60 on the gauge when you rev it out I wouldn't touch it.
Any camshaft other than the stock one Will need some tuning, so consider that before changing camshafts. If you decide to go there, the timing chain is going to have some slack in it that you will feel with your fingers, who cares just leave the oil pump on there with the slacky chain and the original timing gear, just put it all back together with the new camshaft and forget about it.
It was working fine before you took it apart. Lots of people put together things far less reliable than stock because they replace a whole bunch of stuff unnecessarily for "peace of mind".
Given your "lazy" approach this should make sense to you, If it's not broke don't fix it. The only thing that could be possibly wrong at this point? Is your car burning oil? Is it really? Then you need valve seals. Does it feel as strong above 4k as it did when it was new? It just needs fresh valve springs. You'll replace the seals while you're in there because you have it apart.
LS6 springs and fel-pro or BTR hat seals are what you need to freshen your LS1 and keep it reliable unless you want to be replacing them again.
If you don't believe me and you go to all the trouble to cause a giant oil leak just to put a new chain on it go ahead and come back on here and try to tell me that it's not just as damn loose as the old one you went to all the trouble to take off. It's not like you're going to degree the cam anyway it makes no difference.
The springs are the only thing that should need replacing at this point.
Don't touch the oil pan unless the oil pressure is wonky at startup, abnormally low or it raises with engine temp, then you need an oil pump o-ring That's the only reason to pull the pan off. If it's above 30 ish psi hot and gets near 60 on the gauge when you rev it out I wouldn't touch it.
Any camshaft other than the stock one Will need some tuning, so consider that before changing camshafts. If you decide to go there, the timing chain is going to have some slack in it that you will feel with your fingers, who cares just leave the oil pump on there with the slacky chain and the original timing gear, just put it all back together with the new camshaft and forget about it.
It was working fine before you took it apart. Lots of people put together things far less reliable than stock because they replace a whole bunch of stuff unnecessarily for "peace of mind".
Given your "lazy" approach this should make sense to you, If it's not broke don't fix it. The only thing that could be possibly wrong at this point? Is your car burning oil? Is it really? Then you need valve seals. Does it feel as strong above 4k as it did when it was new? It just needs fresh valve springs. You'll replace the seals while you're in there because you have it apart.
LS6 springs and fel-pro or BTR hat seals are what you need to freshen your LS1 and keep it reliable unless you want to be replacing them again.
If you don't believe me and you go to all the trouble to cause a giant oil leak just to put a new chain on it go ahead and come back on here and try to tell me that it's not just as damn loose as the old one you went to all the trouble to take off. It's not like you're going to degree the cam anyway it makes no difference.
01-18-2023, 06:45 PM
#4
Replace the valve springs and seals that's all you need to do to freshen up a high mileage LS, yours or any other Gen 3 engine of the same age that's been well taken care of.
The springs are the only thing that should need replacing at this point.
Don't touch the oil pan unless the oil pressure is wonky at startup, abnormally low or it raises with engine temp, then you need an oil pump o-ring That's the only reason to pull the pan off. If it's above 30 ish psi hot and gets near 60 on the gauge when you rev it out I wouldn't touch it.
Any camshaft other than the stock one Will need some tuning, so consider that before changing camshafts. If you decide to go there, the timing chain is going to have some slack in it that you will feel with your fingers, who cares just leave the oil pump on there with the slacky chain and the original timing gear, just put it all back together with the new camshaft and forget about it.
It was working fine before you took it apart. Lots of people put together things far less reliable than stock because they replace a whole bunch of stuff unnecessarily for "peace of mind".
Given your "lazy" approach this should make sense to you, If it's not broke don't fix it. The only thing that could be possibly wrong at this point? Is your car burning oil? Is it really? Then you need valve seals. Does it feel as strong above 4k as it did when it was new? It just needs fresh valve springs. You'll replace the seals while you're in there because you have it apart.
LS6 springs and fel-pro or BTR hat seals are what you need to freshen your LS1 and keep it reliable unless you want to be replacing them again.
If you don't believe me and you go to all the trouble to cause a giant oil leak just to put a new chain on it go ahead and come back on here and try to tell me that it's not just as damn loose as the old one you went to all the trouble to take off. It's not like you're going to degree the cam anyway it makes no difference.
The springs are the only thing that should need replacing at this point.
Don't touch the oil pan unless the oil pressure is wonky at startup, abnormally low or it raises with engine temp, then you need an oil pump o-ring That's the only reason to pull the pan off. If it's above 30 ish psi hot and gets near 60 on the gauge when you rev it out I wouldn't touch it.
Any camshaft other than the stock one Will need some tuning, so consider that before changing camshafts. If you decide to go there, the timing chain is going to have some slack in it that you will feel with your fingers, who cares just leave the oil pump on there with the slacky chain and the original timing gear, just put it all back together with the new camshaft and forget about it.
It was working fine before you took it apart. Lots of people put together things far less reliable than stock because they replace a whole bunch of stuff unnecessarily for "peace of mind".
Given your "lazy" approach this should make sense to you, If it's not broke don't fix it. The only thing that could be possibly wrong at this point? Is your car burning oil? Is it really? Then you need valve seals. Does it feel as strong above 4k as it did when it was new? It just needs fresh valve springs. You'll replace the seals while you're in there because you have it apart.
LS6 springs and fel-pro or BTR hat seals are what you need to freshen your LS1 and keep it reliable unless you want to be replacing them again.
If you don't believe me and you go to all the trouble to cause a giant oil leak just to put a new chain on it go ahead and come back on here and try to tell me that it's not just as damn loose as the old one you went to all the trouble to take off. It's not like you're going to degree the cam anyway it makes no difference.
Also, that bolt on the coil pack above cylinder 8... I punted that **** to the moon as soon as I got it out. Highly recommend a ratcheted 10mm to make that a lot easier for anyone taking coil packs off in the future.
For the springs, I ordered PAC 1219s and TSP seat/seals with the cam. So yes, I'll change out the seals as well while I'm there. Tune wise, I have a mail tune from Michigan Motorsports inbound. They have all the cam specs and other upgrades, my plan there is to see how it drives with their mail tune and if it sucks I'll get it to a dyno.
The A/C is currently not working so I'll probably replace the compressor while half the car is apart as well. Fun times ahead.
Next question: where does everyone get the dowels to keep the lifters from falling when doing the cam swap?
01-19-2023, 05:10 AM
#5
I'm a few steps ahead of you. Removing the harmonic balance bolt is easy. Use a small propane torch to break the bond from the factory red locktight ( about 1 1/2 minutes will do it) and it comes off easily with a good impact gun. I used a Dewalt DCF900.
Here's some good reading:
How To Install A Camshaft In An LS Engine - Holley Motor Life
Here's some good reading:
How To Install A Camshaft In An LS Engine - Holley Motor Life
01-20-2023, 03:23 PM
#6
TECH Addict
iTrader: (1)
EXACTLY!! This is what I have always done to remove the bolt, bought an ARP bolt, and used the air impact to tighten it. Never had one come loose, never had one spin on the crank, either....
01-21-2023, 07:44 AM
#7
Launching!
I did the fly wheeling locking tool and it worked well, just needed a cheater bar to break the crank bolt loose (cheaper than buying an impact). I recall dropping the starter was easy, just a couple bolts had to be removed. Having the car on Jack stands helped with this and getting the radiator out. Getting the rear coil pack mounting bracket bolt out was a bitch. I had to use a hacksaw to cut my gear wrench in half to give me enough room to use it. To reinstall the crank pulley, warm it up in the oven first and it slides on easily. I used assembly lube to stick the retainers to the valve stem while de-compressing the valve springs.
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01-22-2023, 12:20 PM
#8
That's a good idea, the assembly lube for the retainers. I'm a little nervous about doing the springs on the far back cylinders since it's really hard to see/reach back there. That should prevent me from inevitably dropping some of those retainers when I'm trying to reach back there to re-install.
I also wound up using the same method as you for the crank bolt. With a cheater bar it came right off, not anywhere near as bad as I thought it would be. Granted, I did heat it up a little with a torch so that could've helped. Flywheel lock tool was kind of annoying to install. Just thinking about the rest of the build it seems like it'll have to be installed/uninstalled multiple times. Install to get the crank pulley off, uninstall to be able to spin the crank to get TDC and align cam sprocket, reinstall to get new crank pulley on, then uninstall to put the starter back. Not the most fun
Currently have the timing cover off. Cam and valvesprings should be here tomorrow so those will go in. Doubt I can have the whole car buttoned up in 1 day but we'll try. Mail order PCM should be here as well.
I know this has been beaten to death but for anyone in the future like myself who is trying to do this at home: I wouldn't say an f-body cam swap is difficult but it's definitely a PITA. There's just so much crap that has to come off the car to be able to do it. Not to mention I think I might've spent 50% of what the cam cost just on tools. You're not doing this install with just a basic socket set. Pulley puller, pulley reinstaller, different size gear wrenches, jack stands, jack, impact, valve spring tool, dowels for oil galleries so lifters don't fall, RTV sealant etc etc. No matter how well you plan ahead you'll probably wind up going to the hardware store multiple times. I already had a lot of this stuff but there's going to be several instances where you could try and work with the normal tool you have and sit there for an hour working on 1 bolt or just go out and get the right tool for the specific bolt location and be done with it in 20 seconds.
If you have the means available it's probably worth taking the motor out of the car to do this so you can work like a normal human being and get to everything the right way. It's only a pain because of the limited room you have. Dropping the motor would alleviate all of that.
@DUSTYWS6 do you have any recommendations for temp and duration to bake the pulley? I'll be putting on the SLP 25% UD pulley. thanks a lot
I also wound up using the same method as you for the crank bolt. With a cheater bar it came right off, not anywhere near as bad as I thought it would be. Granted, I did heat it up a little with a torch so that could've helped. Flywheel lock tool was kind of annoying to install. Just thinking about the rest of the build it seems like it'll have to be installed/uninstalled multiple times. Install to get the crank pulley off, uninstall to be able to spin the crank to get TDC and align cam sprocket, reinstall to get new crank pulley on, then uninstall to put the starter back. Not the most fun
Currently have the timing cover off. Cam and valvesprings should be here tomorrow so those will go in. Doubt I can have the whole car buttoned up in 1 day but we'll try. Mail order PCM should be here as well.
I know this has been beaten to death but for anyone in the future like myself who is trying to do this at home: I wouldn't say an f-body cam swap is difficult but it's definitely a PITA. There's just so much crap that has to come off the car to be able to do it. Not to mention I think I might've spent 50% of what the cam cost just on tools. You're not doing this install with just a basic socket set. Pulley puller, pulley reinstaller, different size gear wrenches, jack stands, jack, impact, valve spring tool, dowels for oil galleries so lifters don't fall, RTV sealant etc etc. No matter how well you plan ahead you'll probably wind up going to the hardware store multiple times. I already had a lot of this stuff but there's going to be several instances where you could try and work with the normal tool you have and sit there for an hour working on 1 bolt or just go out and get the right tool for the specific bolt location and be done with it in 20 seconds.
If you have the means available it's probably worth taking the motor out of the car to do this so you can work like a normal human being and get to everything the right way. It's only a pain because of the limited room you have. Dropping the motor would alleviate all of that.
@DUSTYWS6 do you have any recommendations for temp and duration to bake the pulley? I'll be putting on the SLP 25% UD pulley. thanks a lot
Last edited by 02firehawkT/A; 01-22-2023 at 12:28 PM.
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grubinski (01-22-2023)
01-22-2023, 02:15 PM
#9
TECH Addict
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That's a good idea, the assembly lube for the retainers. I'm a little nervous about doing the springs on the far back cylinders since it's really hard to see/reach back there. That should prevent me from inevitably dropping some of those retainers when I'm trying to reach back there to re-install.
I also wound up using the same method as you for the crank bolt. With a cheater bar it came right off, not anywhere near as bad as I thought it would be. Granted, I did heat it up a little with a torch so that could've helped. Flywheel lock tool was kind of annoying to install. Just thinking about the rest of the build it seems like it'll have to be installed/uninstalled multiple times. Install to get the crank pulley off, uninstall to be able to spin the crank to get TDC and align cam sprocket, reinstall to get new crank pulley on, then uninstall to put the starter back. Not the most fun
Currently have the timing cover off. Cam and valvesprings should be here tomorrow so those will go in. Doubt I can have the whole car buttoned up in 1 day but we'll try. Mail order PCM should be here as well.
I know this has been beaten to death but for anyone in the future like myself who is trying to do this at home: I wouldn't say an f-body cam swap is difficult but it's definitely a PITA. There's just so much crap that has to come off the car to be able to do it. Not to mention I think I might've spent 50% of what the cam cost just on tools. You're not doing this install with just a basic socket set. Pulley puller, pulley reinstaller, different size gear wrenches, jack stands, jack, impact, valve spring tool, dowels for oil galleries so lifters don't fall, RTV sealant etc etc. No matter how well you plan ahead you'll probably wind up going to the hardware store multiple times. I already had a lot of this stuff but there's going to be several instances where you could try and work with the normal tool you have and sit there for an hour working on 1 bolt or just go out and get the right tool for the specific bolt location and be done with it in 20 seconds.
If you have the means available it's probably worth taking the motor out of the car to do this so you can work like a normal human being and get to everything the right way. It's only a pain because of the limited room you have. Dropping the motor would alleviate all of that.
@DUSTYWS6 do you have any recommendations for temp and duration to bake the pulley? I'll be putting on the SLP 25% UD pulley. thanks a lot
I also wound up using the same method as you for the crank bolt. With a cheater bar it came right off, not anywhere near as bad as I thought it would be. Granted, I did heat it up a little with a torch so that could've helped. Flywheel lock tool was kind of annoying to install. Just thinking about the rest of the build it seems like it'll have to be installed/uninstalled multiple times. Install to get the crank pulley off, uninstall to be able to spin the crank to get TDC and align cam sprocket, reinstall to get new crank pulley on, then uninstall to put the starter back. Not the most fun
Currently have the timing cover off. Cam and valvesprings should be here tomorrow so those will go in. Doubt I can have the whole car buttoned up in 1 day but we'll try. Mail order PCM should be here as well.
I know this has been beaten to death but for anyone in the future like myself who is trying to do this at home: I wouldn't say an f-body cam swap is difficult but it's definitely a PITA. There's just so much crap that has to come off the car to be able to do it. Not to mention I think I might've spent 50% of what the cam cost just on tools. You're not doing this install with just a basic socket set. Pulley puller, pulley reinstaller, different size gear wrenches, jack stands, jack, impact, valve spring tool, dowels for oil galleries so lifters don't fall, RTV sealant etc etc. No matter how well you plan ahead you'll probably wind up going to the hardware store multiple times. I already had a lot of this stuff but there's going to be several instances where you could try and work with the normal tool you have and sit there for an hour working on 1 bolt or just go out and get the right tool for the specific bolt location and be done with it in 20 seconds.
If you have the means available it's probably worth taking the motor out of the car to do this so you can work like a normal human being and get to everything the right way. It's only a pain because of the limited room you have. Dropping the motor would alleviate all of that.
@DUSTYWS6 do you have any recommendations for temp and duration to bake the pulley? I'll be putting on the SLP 25% UD pulley. thanks a lot
01-22-2023, 04:44 PM
#10
So you're saying the UD pulley is going to slow down the water pump enough to potentially overheat the car in the summer? I'm retaining the stock radiator. I did look for a 10% pulley but they seemed harder to find/more expensive and I read that you may as well leave it stock versus going with a 10%.
The main reason I wanted the UD pulley was mostly to replace the absolute barbell rusted out stock one that looks terrible and to hopefully rev a little more quickly being that I'm going to keep the stock stall until my 4L60E takes a dump.
I was hoping the ~200 RPM idle bump with the cam tune would kind of mitigate some of the effects of the UD pulley. I'll be driving the car in the midwest moving forward so it'll see hot temps in the summer months but most likely mostly highway driving. I did consider an electric water pump, but they're expensive and I didn't think it was smart to add another electrical item onto the system when I'm going to be underdriving it with the pulley. I've got halo lights around the fogs and a backup camera wired up currently as the add-ons to the electrical system. Don't think either of those draw much power, but still
The main reason I wanted the UD pulley was mostly to replace the absolute barbell rusted out stock one that looks terrible and to hopefully rev a little more quickly being that I'm going to keep the stock stall until my 4L60E takes a dump.
I was hoping the ~200 RPM idle bump with the cam tune would kind of mitigate some of the effects of the UD pulley. I'll be driving the car in the midwest moving forward so it'll see hot temps in the summer months but most likely mostly highway driving. I did consider an electric water pump, but they're expensive and I didn't think it was smart to add another electrical item onto the system when I'm going to be underdriving it with the pulley. I've got halo lights around the fogs and a backup camera wired up currently as the add-ons to the electrical system. Don't think either of those draw much power, but still
01-23-2023, 10:50 AM
#11
TECH Addict
iTrader: (1)
Thanks for the info, I really appreciate it. I'm surprised you're saying leave the stock 102K mile chain but I am and was definitely leaning towards that anyway. I thought I was going to get flamed for wanting to leave it on but like you said it's a huge PITA to get to that pickup tube and a gamble for future leaks. No oil pressure issues whatsoever since I've owned it but I did order an LS2 chain in case I find any surprises. I should know tomorrow what the condition of all that is; I was able to take the valve covers, water pump and fan shroud off the car today. Tomorrow I'll finish removing the rad and then hopefully have the timing cover off. Have a feeling the crank pulley is going to be an absolute BITCH to get off. 20+ year old northeast car and I don't have a pneumatic impact at the moment.
Also, that bolt on the coil pack above cylinder 8... I punted that **** to the moon as soon as I got it out. Highly recommend a ratcheted 10mm to make that a lot easier for anyone taking coil packs off in the future.
For the springs, I ordered PAC 1219s and TSP seat/seals with the cam. So yes, I'll change out the seals as well while I'm there. Tune wise, I have a mail tune from Michigan Motorsports inbound. They have all the cam specs and other upgrades, my plan there is to see how it drives with their mail tune and if it sucks I'll get it to a dyno.
The A/C is currently not working so I'll probably replace the compressor while half the car is apart as well. Fun times ahead.
Next question: where does everyone get the dowels to keep the lifters from falling when doing the cam swap?
Also, that bolt on the coil pack above cylinder 8... I punted that **** to the moon as soon as I got it out. Highly recommend a ratcheted 10mm to make that a lot easier for anyone taking coil packs off in the future.
For the springs, I ordered PAC 1219s and TSP seat/seals with the cam. So yes, I'll change out the seals as well while I'm there. Tune wise, I have a mail tune from Michigan Motorsports inbound. They have all the cam specs and other upgrades, my plan there is to see how it drives with their mail tune and if it sucks I'll get it to a dyno.
The A/C is currently not working so I'll probably replace the compressor while half the car is apart as well. Fun times ahead.
Next question: where does everyone get the dowels to keep the lifters from falling when doing the cam swap?
01-23-2023, 06:33 PM
#13
TECH Addict
iTrader: (1)
So you're saying the UD pulley is going to slow down the water pump enough to potentially overheat the car in the summer? I'm retaining the stock radiator. I did look for a 10% pulley but they seemed harder to find/more expensive and I read that you may as well leave it stock versus going with a 10%.
The main reason I wanted the UD pulley was mostly to replace the absolute barbell rusted out stock one that looks terrible and to hopefully rev a little more quickly being that I'm going to keep the stock stall until my 4L60E takes a dump.
I was hoping the ~200 RPM idle bump with the cam tune would kind of mitigate some of the effects of the UD pulley. I'll be driving the car in the midwest moving forward so it'll see hot temps in the summer months but most likely mostly highway driving. I did consider an electric water pump, but they're expensive and I didn't think it was smart to add another electrical item onto the system when I'm going to be underdriving it with the pulley. I've got halo lights around the fogs and a backup camera wired up currently as the add-ons to the electrical system. Don't think either of those draw much power, but still
The main reason I wanted the UD pulley was mostly to replace the absolute barbell rusted out stock one that looks terrible and to hopefully rev a little more quickly being that I'm going to keep the stock stall until my 4L60E takes a dump.
I was hoping the ~200 RPM idle bump with the cam tune would kind of mitigate some of the effects of the UD pulley. I'll be driving the car in the midwest moving forward so it'll see hot temps in the summer months but most likely mostly highway driving. I did consider an electric water pump, but they're expensive and I didn't think it was smart to add another electrical item onto the system when I'm going to be underdriving it with the pulley. I've got halo lights around the fogs and a backup camera wired up currently as the add-ons to the electrical system. Don't think either of those draw much power, but still
01-23-2023, 07:09 PM
#14
NO!! I didn't say it would overheat the engine. BUT, all things equal, you will have a slight increase in coolant temps with the 25% vs the 10%. Not a lot, but I'd guess around 10°, give or take, maybe a bit more. If you want to keep the stock radiator, I'd go no more than 10% UD......
Anyone have tips on how to get the valvesprings to line up properly when installing the new ones? I was able to replace the hats no problem and I'm always able to get one spring aligned properly but not the other. I'm using one of those LS spring compressors that torques down intake and exhaust springs at the same time
01-24-2023, 08:30 AM
#15
TECH Addict
iTrader: (1)
Gotcha. I think I'll throw the stock rad on for now and see how it goes. I'm not opposed to putting a new one on anyway since it's 20+ years old. I'll take a look and see how much they run.
Anyone have tips on how to get the valvesprings to line up properly when installing the new ones? I was able to replace the hats no problem and I'm always able to get one spring aligned properly but not the other. I'm using one of those LS spring compressors that torques down intake and exhaust springs at the same time
Anyone have tips on how to get the valvesprings to line up properly when installing the new ones? I was able to replace the hats no problem and I'm always able to get one spring aligned properly but not the other. I'm using one of those LS spring compressors that torques down intake and exhaust springs at the same time
01-31-2023, 07:46 PM
#16
Appreciate everyone's input and advice. Got the car buttoned up yesterday and drove it around a good amount today. Post cam install thoughts:
The car hits like a freight train now! I had a 2017 Camaro SS with the A8 and I would venture to bet this car is now roughly as fast as that car was. The underdrive pulley is a difference make for sure, especially if you're keeping the stock stall; car revs much more freely and engine response feels way better. Michigan Motorsports did some sort of black magic wizardry with the tune making it feel WAY more stock than I ever would have expected. Around town the car feels more stock than it did with my FROST tune with just bolt-ons and that's no joke. Once you start romping on the throttle it becomes evident there's a bigger cam but around town it literally feels stock. I kind of wish I had went with the 112LSA vs the 114 knowing how this car feels now, but it's all good! I've read a lot about guys screaming about how you need a stall when you get a cam. It is totally not necessary if you're looking to do a smaller cam. I don't doubt that it's worth it for guys looking for every tenth in the 1/4 mile, but for street use I promise you don't need it. Not only will it add money to your cam swap, but most shops these days won't stall an older 4L60E without building the transmission too and now your $800 cam swap turned into a $3500+ ordeal. Not worth it, IMO.
Couple lessons learned and parts of the swap that went less than ideally:
- I rounded off a rocker arm bolt that was stubborn as hell. I was able to get it with one of those bolt extractor sockets but I had to run around town to find an 8mm one and that cost me about 1.5 hours and some serious frustration. Highly recommend keeping a set of these in the toolbox anyway, especially if you do this type of job. Sooner or later, you'll probably wind up needing them and they're not too expensive
- Broke a nipple off the radiator just under the cap when I was trying to torque down one of the metal fittings. Was able to gorilla glue it back in place and it's on there rock solid now with the hose connected and not leaking. So be careful near the radiator especially if it's one like mine that's 20+ years strong
- There's a definite learning curve to doing valve springs in the car. I took me no joke 3 hours to get one cylinder replaced, and 2.7 hours of that was trying to get the new ones on. The majority of the dual spring tools are honestly garbage and don't compress both springs evenly, so you'll have to really get creative. Figured out a few tricks that made the rest of them go on much quicker. Somehow #8 was one of the easiest cylinders to do, go figure...
I know these swaps have been done for decades now but in case anyone sees this thread and wants to learn from my mistakes! Feel free to PM too
The car hits like a freight train now! I had a 2017 Camaro SS with the A8 and I would venture to bet this car is now roughly as fast as that car was. The underdrive pulley is a difference make for sure, especially if you're keeping the stock stall; car revs much more freely and engine response feels way better. Michigan Motorsports did some sort of black magic wizardry with the tune making it feel WAY more stock than I ever would have expected. Around town the car feels more stock than it did with my FROST tune with just bolt-ons and that's no joke. Once you start romping on the throttle it becomes evident there's a bigger cam but around town it literally feels stock. I kind of wish I had went with the 112LSA vs the 114 knowing how this car feels now, but it's all good! I've read a lot about guys screaming about how you need a stall when you get a cam. It is totally not necessary if you're looking to do a smaller cam. I don't doubt that it's worth it for guys looking for every tenth in the 1/4 mile, but for street use I promise you don't need it. Not only will it add money to your cam swap, but most shops these days won't stall an older 4L60E without building the transmission too and now your $800 cam swap turned into a $3500+ ordeal. Not worth it, IMO.
Couple lessons learned and parts of the swap that went less than ideally:
- I rounded off a rocker arm bolt that was stubborn as hell. I was able to get it with one of those bolt extractor sockets but I had to run around town to find an 8mm one and that cost me about 1.5 hours and some serious frustration. Highly recommend keeping a set of these in the toolbox anyway, especially if you do this type of job. Sooner or later, you'll probably wind up needing them and they're not too expensive
- Broke a nipple off the radiator just under the cap when I was trying to torque down one of the metal fittings. Was able to gorilla glue it back in place and it's on there rock solid now with the hose connected and not leaking. So be careful near the radiator especially if it's one like mine that's 20+ years strong
- There's a definite learning curve to doing valve springs in the car. I took me no joke 3 hours to get one cylinder replaced, and 2.7 hours of that was trying to get the new ones on. The majority of the dual spring tools are honestly garbage and don't compress both springs evenly, so you'll have to really get creative. Figured out a few tricks that made the rest of them go on much quicker. Somehow #8 was one of the easiest cylinders to do, go figure...
I know these swaps have been done for decades now but in case anyone sees this thread and wants to learn from my mistakes! Feel free to PM too
02-01-2023, 09:07 AM
#17
TECH Addict
iTrader: (1)
Appreciate everyone's input and advice. Got the car buttoned up yesterday and drove it around a good amount today. Post cam install thoughts:
The car hits like a freight train now! I had a 2017 Camaro SS with the A8 and I would venture to bet this car is now roughly as fast as that car was. The underdrive pulley is a difference make for sure, especially if you're keeping the stock stall; car revs much more freely and engine response feels way better. Michigan Motorsports did some sort of black magic wizardry with the tune making it feel WAY more stock than I ever would have expected. Around town the car feels more stock than it did with my FROST tune with just bolt-ons and that's no joke. Once you start romping on the throttle it becomes evident there's a bigger cam but around town it literally feels stock. I kind of wish I had went with the 112LSA vs the 114 knowing how this car feels now, but it's all good! I've read a lot about guys screaming about how you need a stall when you get a cam. It is totally not necessary if you're looking to do a smaller cam. I don't doubt that it's worth it for guys looking for every tenth in the 1/4 mile, but for street use I promise you don't need it. Not only will it add money to your cam swap, but most shops these days won't stall an older 4L60E without building the transmission too and now your $800 cam swap turned into a $3500+ ordeal. Not worth it, IMO.
Couple lessons learned and parts of the swap that went less than ideally:
- I rounded off a rocker arm bolt that was stubborn as hell. I was able to get it with one of those bolt extractor sockets but I had to run around town to find an 8mm one and that cost me about 1.5 hours and some serious frustration. Highly recommend keeping a set of these in the toolbox anyway, especially if you do this type of job. Sooner or later, you'll probably wind up needing them and they're not too expensive
- Broke a nipple off the radiator just under the cap when I was trying to torque down one of the metal fittings. Was able to gorilla glue it back in place and it's on there rock solid now with the hose connected and not leaking. So be careful near the radiator especially if it's one like mine that's 20+ years strong
- There's a definite learning curve to doing valve springs in the car. I took me no joke 3 hours to get one cylinder replaced, and 2.7 hours of that was trying to get the new ones on. The majority of the dual spring tools are honestly garbage and don't compress both springs evenly, so you'll have to really get creative. Figured out a few tricks that made the rest of them go on much quicker. Somehow #8 was one of the easiest cylinders to do, go figure...
I know these swaps have been done for decades now but in case anyone sees this thread and wants to learn from my mistakes! Feel free to PM too
The car hits like a freight train now! I had a 2017 Camaro SS with the A8 and I would venture to bet this car is now roughly as fast as that car was. The underdrive pulley is a difference make for sure, especially if you're keeping the stock stall; car revs much more freely and engine response feels way better. Michigan Motorsports did some sort of black magic wizardry with the tune making it feel WAY more stock than I ever would have expected. Around town the car feels more stock than it did with my FROST tune with just bolt-ons and that's no joke. Once you start romping on the throttle it becomes evident there's a bigger cam but around town it literally feels stock. I kind of wish I had went with the 112LSA vs the 114 knowing how this car feels now, but it's all good! I've read a lot about guys screaming about how you need a stall when you get a cam. It is totally not necessary if you're looking to do a smaller cam. I don't doubt that it's worth it for guys looking for every tenth in the 1/4 mile, but for street use I promise you don't need it. Not only will it add money to your cam swap, but most shops these days won't stall an older 4L60E without building the transmission too and now your $800 cam swap turned into a $3500+ ordeal. Not worth it, IMO.
Couple lessons learned and parts of the swap that went less than ideally:
- I rounded off a rocker arm bolt that was stubborn as hell. I was able to get it with one of those bolt extractor sockets but I had to run around town to find an 8mm one and that cost me about 1.5 hours and some serious frustration. Highly recommend keeping a set of these in the toolbox anyway, especially if you do this type of job. Sooner or later, you'll probably wind up needing them and they're not too expensive
- Broke a nipple off the radiator just under the cap when I was trying to torque down one of the metal fittings. Was able to gorilla glue it back in place and it's on there rock solid now with the hose connected and not leaking. So be careful near the radiator especially if it's one like mine that's 20+ years strong
- There's a definite learning curve to doing valve springs in the car. I took me no joke 3 hours to get one cylinder replaced, and 2.7 hours of that was trying to get the new ones on. The majority of the dual spring tools are honestly garbage and don't compress both springs evenly, so you'll have to really get creative. Figured out a few tricks that made the rest of them go on much quicker. Somehow #8 was one of the easiest cylinders to do, go figure...
I know these swaps have been done for decades now but in case anyone sees this thread and wants to learn from my mistakes! Feel free to PM too