borrone821

iTrader: (3)

Hi guys,
Picked up an 02 WS6 convertible with a broken engine. Kid thought he hyrdolocked and in fact he did (PM me if you want pictures of snapped rod and rusted cylinder walls).
Question becomes what to replace it with. I looked all over this forum and others and really nobody said to rebuild the LS1 unless you want the satisfaction of saying you built it yourself (contemplated for 15 minutes then realized I have 2 kids under 10, sports are 7 days a week, and i want to be on the road this summer).
So boneyard motor it will be. This is going to be a cruiser i can take to work and back and to Cape Cod when I want; no track or autox or anything like that (I know everyone asks what you're looking for so that's why i wrote that because every other thread that asks this question, the first reponse is "what're your goals?", so i figured i'd head that one off)
I know there are a number of threads on this that go sideways in a multitude of different ways, but i'm interested in overall driveability w/o just dropping in an LS3 and spending $10k

LS1 or 2 seem too expensive to me to be worth it.
L33 is a possibility but other than the weight savings which I will likely not feel, I don't see the point over an iron 6.0
LQ4 and LQ9 are highly likely. In my area (MA) there is a small price differential between LQ4 and LQ9s (1000ish vs 1500ish for a 130-150k mile motor). If i keep the longblock stock, is the lq9 worth the extra cost, or am I better off getting an LQ4 and doing a cam swap?
I've read all the 6.0 builds in motortrend and carcraft about >430hp for short money, with and without cam swaps.
Looks like longtubes and a tune are really the key to waking these up. I know that a cam will help massively on the upper end for the HP number (which I care little about) but is it worth an upgrade if i'm gonna spend 95% of my time below 4000rpm?


So interested in opinions from those who have swapped into a 4th gen (i have a T56), as well as those who gone through similar thought processes and where you ended up. I'm likely buying a motor in the next couple of weeks and since i cannot figure it out by myself, I ask you folks

Please don't just ask me to search.. I've been on this forums for 15 years and researching this topic since mid-december.... i clearly am interested in more information and opinions from you experts.

thanks in advance.
Jim

Che70velle

iTrader: (6)

Being as how you are in a hurry, and rebuilding this one would take a year or so because parts are hard to find and shops are backed up. Heck your block might be hurt anyway. I usually don’t recommend someone going crate engine, because there’s a whole lot of small engine shops that need guys like you…but having said that, you can find a reman LS1 in stock out there in the mid $3k range. Your rebuildable core is gonna add a fee (usually $500-$600) if it can’t be rebuilt. Look around on the net. It’s going to be hands down the fastest and cheapest way to get your car going. Please don’t cheap out on a 5.3 install. It will ruin the value of what you have, and with used car pricing today being out of control, you might have an investment on your hands if you bought it right.

LS1Formulation

iTrader: (13)

The above advice is sound. Why? You take a gamble on junkyard engines, unless it's in a vehicle that still runs and you can hear the engine and see if it smokes, etc. Think of the work to install an engine, especially in a 4th gen F-body - It's not easy. Imagine getting it all buttoned up and starting it, and it's clattering or smoking, or worse. Sure, the yard will guarantee it, but they won't pay you for your labor or any labor you pay out to have it done. I tear down every junkyard engine I buy. The sloppy guys just cam it and run it, but I'm not risking it. I'd have been screwed if I threw the LH6 I bought in my Firebird without checking. The pistons and bores are destroyed. It ran and drove, and hauled *** in the SUV I pulled it from. But it's just worn out and probably wouldn't have lasted a whole season.

LS1 TJ

My .02.
It's always a crap shoot on junk yard engines. To bolt in you need a 24 tooth reluctor engine. Unless you buy a new GM crate engine GM haven't built a 24 tooth engine since 2006?
Looking at the 2021 GM catalog the only 24 tooth LS engine is a 6.0 rated at 452 HP. It's an iron block with LS3 heads. So that means a LS3 intake and throttle body.
I would go junk yard 6.0. Pull it apart and fix as needed. Then bolt it in. Get a good tune then drive the heck out of it.
Check the parts for sale part of this forum for engine stuff.

LS1 TJ

Just one more thing.
On CL MPLS in the auto parts section there is a guy that posts rebuilt LS engines for sale. I don't know him from anybody. Might be worth contacting.

borrone821

iTrader: (3)

Everything you guys said I totally agree with... this is actually my 2nd 4th gen engine swap (first was a full drivetrain), so i'm actually not worried about the install too too much, but it is EXACTLY why i'm not rebuilding the LS1 (which might be damaged and there's no good machine shops near me) or building up a motor.
TOTALLY agree on the risk of buying a junkyard/palleted motor vs being able to hear it run... that's actually what started most of this.
There are palleted LQ9s I can find near me, or LQ4s in cars I can hear run and verify mileage

Guess another questions is, if you could get a reman $3k LS1 or a $3k reman LQ9 which way are you going? Everything I've read the LQ series is better for what i'm looking for (broad torque on the low end, do not care about top end since I never plan to be there)

LS1Formulation

iTrader: (13)

You're gaining 18 cubic inches, and adding 100 lbs. to the nose of the car. It's not going to be much of a gain, to be honest. This is assuming using a stock cam, btw. I'd never use a stock cam. Too easy to do a cam swap. I myself would go aluminum block all day. I have an LQ4 and still went and found an aluminum 5.3 to use instead. Put the right cam in an LS1 and you're not going to miss the extra torque from the 6.0.

grinder11

iTrader: (1)

I agree about gaining only 18 cubes at the expense of 100lbs on the front of the car. That said:
OP, is the block salvageable? Are you capable of building an engine yourself? Che70velle makes a good point on a reman LS1 short/longblock. It's hard to tell online here just what is still good and salvageable, and what isn't. You might want to check the Corvette forum classifieds for engines/parts. Best of luck, man......

borrone821

iTrader: (3)

i sold the long block minus pan this past weekend. Cylinder wall was scored by ring when piston went sideways but likely repairable... like I said, not many machine shops near me, and from what i've been told they all charge a fortune
I am capable of building an engine but honestly don't think it's worthwhile from a cost perspective (would take me a LOT of hours).
I'd like to drop in a working motor, or minimally a working short block.

I've read a TON of forums that said "if you're not racing, you'll never notice the extra 60-80lbs (the 100lbs vs 60-80 was also highly debated).
So is the 60-100lbs that much of a difference in a cruiser? That will define the LS vs LQ question.
Is an LS1 at 2x the cost really better than an L33? That's really just a money question.

If LQ, which one and why, understanding there's a cost delta. 243/799 heads are pretty affordable nowadays and can bump up an LQ4 compression pretty quickly.

I'm already putting aside $1000 for headers/y-pipe (opinions welcomed), and $500 or so for clutch (likely going LS7 Luk kit) and another $500 for misc stuff and a tune... so obviously trying to keep costs down for what i'm looking for

pdxmotorhead

Takes very little to get the l33 into good power for a street ride, comes with 243/799 heads.. Your starting at like 310-320 HP
It's basically a little brother to a LS2.

In my 94 jeep I notice the weight, the L33 is like within 20 lbs of the 4 cylinder I took out,
Plus switching to a 4l65 auto moved the weight back, Jeep never drove so good.. Almost perfect 50/50 weight now.

Cheers

LS1 TJ

My current 98 Wrangler has a 2002 LS6/4L60E swap. Years ago for what ever reason I thought I needed two LS swapped Wranglers. One for summer and one for winter. I bought a 99 Wrangler and swapped in a super low mileage 6.0/4L60E combo. Even though the 6.0 was a bit heavier than the LS6 I could not tell any difference handling wise or performance wise. I ended up selling the 6.0 swapped Wrangler.
I would be nervous about buying a "rebuilt" LS1. As I understand the limited cylinder over bore size is a problem.

borrone821

iTrader: (3)

I'm leaning 6.0 due to what everyone said, and honestly think that's the cheapest and easiest way to performance (low end torque in my case).

Does anyone have opinions on LQ4 vs LQ9s? Cam necessary, or stock with headers/tune is good enough in a 4th gen?

wannafbody

iTrader: (2)

I'd suggest an Iron Duke and a turbo. Bulletproof and you'll get great gas mileage.

BFK86

iTrader: (1)

L33s are not as plentiful as you make it sound, if you are crunched for time you might want to go another route, unless you have alot of junkyards in your area with a large inventory and alot of time on your hands to scour them all your chances of finding one in a timely manner are pretty slim. I'd go with a 6.0 LQ4 or LQ9 whichever comes first, as they aren't super easy to find either like an iron 5.3 is. No matter what I would put a cam in it, no better time to do so that when the engine is out of the car...doesn't have to be a huge cam, in fact some of the aftermarket "truck" cams have been shown to make good power everywhere over stock with no loss down low and are mild enough to not ruin drivability. With an LQ4 i'd run some 706 heads to bump compression as much as possible, they've been shown to make more power over 243s/799s on a 6.0 unless you plan to spin it past 6k. Really your budget should dictate which route you go and how much you want to modify it.

Redbull87

iTrader: (3)

Ill say having gone from a ls1 to a lq4..I barely noticed the weight at very low parking lot speeds while turning.Other than that.. negligible. The torque curve of the lq4 for a cruiser will make it a fun street car. Id suggest the lq4 vs the lq9 due to cost. Because at any point you were to fully build the motor in the future..which pistons are currently in it wont matter and you paid for nothing other than saying you have an lq9. Take an lq4 that you can easily drop in, if the budget allows I would do 243 heads..milled if you really want to wake it up. The compression bump will get you around 10.5:1 iirc..maybe 10.8. I did this while ago. Tune for sure to optimize it,anything else you can afford to do will only liven it up,don't need a big cam for more power..it will want more exhaust..headers etc.

grinder11

iTrader: (1)

Nobody is going to notice an extra 80lbs on the nose of the front end at very low parking lot speeds. Hell, you could probably add 300lbs and not notice it looking for a parking place. Looking for a checkered flag, I think most people would notice 80lbs up front. That said, if OP is drag racing, probably not a deal breaker, though lighter is always better. I'm an old school guy, who waited for almost 30 years for GM to produce an all aluminum V8 for the masses. So aluminum V8 Chevys rate pretty high on my list. My .02....

BFK86

iTrader: (1)

I agree, when i was shopping for a built short block to replace my LS1 I spent the extra on having an aluminum 383 built over an iron 383. Thought about going with a iron 6.0 370 but to overcome the weight disadvantage I would have had to go quite a bit more wild on the top end which i didn't want to do. Wish LS2s were more plentiful, that would have been a good balance of weight and power over the LS1 but not many engine builders go out of their way to find LS2 blocks.

borrone821

iTrader: (3)

Really appreciate the input.
Trying to keep cost down so I don't have more into the car than it's worth, which is keeping me from just buying an LS2 or rebuilt LS1.
Looks like I can get an LQ4 or LQ9 in the 1000-1500 range in the 120k mile range. From this forum and performancetrucks, nobody seems to have issues with the iron blocks, but they all say to cam it.
Guy posted on CL yesterday in the town next to me an LQ9 with 243 heads and sloppy stage 2 cam. haven't talked to him yet in detail about it, but this sounds like a great combo.... but i'm worried about the compression ratio and since I don't have enough details to get the real number, does this sound like a good combo for a daily? (Again, NOT racing this at all... just a cruiser)

LS1Formulation

iTrader: (13)

The compression ratio won't be an issue. Anything bigger than a factory cam is going to have a later IVC which will bleed off some cylinder pressure, and an LQ9 with 243s will only be around 10.5-10.7:1, easily done on premium pump gas. I'd be willing to go up to 11.7:1 on an LS with premium, given the appropriate cam timing. It will make for a great cruiser. Check the clutch when you pull the old engine, and upgrade to an LS7 clutch if it needs replaced. Easier to do it while you already have the engine out.

borrone821

iTrader: (3)

LS7 clutch is already on order and stock slave. still figuring out where to source a speed bleeder
Trying to figure out if I need a Tick master or not (have used them in the past; they're great but wicked expensive. Or if I should just do the drill mod and be done with it.