Knock retard... It won't go away...
09-27-2004, 02:20 PM
#21
I didn't see an answer to your question about decay... Yes the 98's have it.
If you got the same kr running 93 and 100 octane, then that definitely sounds like false knock. Unless you are seeing a lean spike on your o2 voltages immediately preceding it.
You could counteract it by bumping your timing up 1-2 degrees at the same point. (sounds opposite doesn't it?) Then with the standard KR you always see there, you'd be right where you want to be. (rather than disabling KR entirely, you'd only be zapping it in one spot, still covered in all other cases.)
If you got the same kr running 93 and 100 octane, then that definitely sounds like false knock. Unless you are seeing a lean spike on your o2 voltages immediately preceding it.
You could counteract it by bumping your timing up 1-2 degrees at the same point. (sounds opposite doesn't it?) Then with the standard KR you always see there, you'd be right where you want to be. (rather than disabling KR entirely, you'd only be zapping it in one spot, still covered in all other cases.)
09-27-2004, 02:58 PM
#22
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What are some common things to look for that may create false knock?
I have the same problem, around 4000 rpms at WOT (or pretty close) I get a few degrees of retard. This has always been the case and even did it on the dyno so I'm not sure where to look.
I already reduced the decay rate so the KR spikes up to 4.5 then is gone and it only did this at 2 log points in HP Tuners so that leads me to doubt that it's actually detonation, although detonation is still possible.
One other question, as far as the O2 sensor readings go, do higher values represent a leaner condition in HP Tuners?
Sorry, not trying to hijack anyones thread, these questions just seemed pertinent so may as well keep all the info together.
Thanks.
I have the same problem, around 4000 rpms at WOT (or pretty close) I get a few degrees of retard. This has always been the case and even did it on the dyno so I'm not sure where to look.
I already reduced the decay rate so the KR spikes up to 4.5 then is gone and it only did this at 2 log points in HP Tuners so that leads me to doubt that it's actually detonation, although detonation is still possible.
One other question, as far as the O2 sensor readings go, do higher values represent a leaner condition in HP Tuners?
Sorry, not trying to hijack anyones thread, these questions just seemed pertinent so may as well keep all the info together.
Thanks.
09-27-2004, 08:33 PM
#23
I have seen this on a 99 TA M6. It would have knock just driving down the highway at a light cruise. it does it when it wants to. He runs 94 all the time.
My guess for his car is his true dual set up that dumps before the axle.
We still haven't solved it yet...
My guess for his car is his true dual set up that dumps before the axle.
We still haven't solved it yet...
09-27-2004, 09:47 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by slow trap
have you got stock or aftermarket plug wires?
Originally Posted by John_D.
I didn't see an answer to your question about decay... Yes the 98's have it.
You could counteract it by bumping your timing up 1-2 degrees at the same point. (sounds opposite doesn't it?) Then with the standard KR you always see there, you'd be right where you want to be. (rather than disabling KR entirely, you'd only be zapping it in one spot, still covered in all other cases.)
You could counteract it by bumping your timing up 1-2 degrees at the same point. (sounds opposite doesn't it?) Then with the standard KR you always see there, you'd be right where you want to be. (rather than disabling KR entirely, you'd only be zapping it in one spot, still covered in all other cases.)
BTW on the decay... This is my screen shot... I don't have anything under decay, or am I looking in the wrong place?
Last edited by BlackWS6LS1; 09-28-2004 at 07:37 PM.
09-28-2004, 02:06 AM
#25
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Originally Posted by BlackWS6LS1
Ok,
To started off I have researched every post here and the other board that deal with the KR prolbems. What I have done so far:
Both Knock sensors replace since its a 98
Made sure the K sensor harness was A OK
Exhaust free of banging
No aftermarket pulley
Better gas.
So I see about 4 to 4.4 spike and then it comes down, around 3800-4000 rpms, here is were it gets weird. Not all the time, not in all gears, but sometimes in all gears and at different RPMs. I've fought the problem for about six months. Getting ready to ditch the y-pipe and catback and maybe even the chasis mount torque arm, to test. Do any of you think this will help? If not what will?
MODS:
Engine:
Stage 2 Heads
CC 212 218 523 529 @ 114 Cam
MAC Headers ORP
No ERG removed w\ HP Tuners
No air tubes w\ HP Tuners
Cartek Clutch
Suspension:
HP Motorsports Torque Arm
Lower Springs
LCA and Adj Panhard rod.
To started off I have researched every post here and the other board that deal with the KR prolbems. What I have done so far:
Both Knock sensors replace since its a 98
Made sure the K sensor harness was A OK
Exhaust free of banging
No aftermarket pulley
Better gas.
So I see about 4 to 4.4 spike and then it comes down, around 3800-4000 rpms, here is were it gets weird. Not all the time, not in all gears, but sometimes in all gears and at different RPMs. I've fought the problem for about six months. Getting ready to ditch the y-pipe and catback and maybe even the chasis mount torque arm, to test. Do any of you think this will help? If not what will?
MODS:
Engine:
Stage 2 Heads
CC 212 218 523 529 @ 114 Cam
MAC Headers ORP
No ERG removed w\ HP Tuners
No air tubes w\ HP Tuners
Cartek Clutch
Suspension:
HP Motorsports Torque Arm
Lower Springs
LCA and Adj Panhard rod.
you could be getting high combustion chamber temps. at light to heavy load situations because of the removed egr, i dont think 114 lsa is tight enough to remove the egr with out ill effects, like high temps at diff. rpms and loads.
i know you guys have heard it a million times but the egr helps with performance, it dose not hurt it.
the pcm will turn the egr off at wot, or when an emissions problem exists, to prevent carbon build up in the intake.
i know that is what the problem was on my car, i had about 4-6* of KR.
some times, and some times it didnt, i could not find the problem until i found some info on the egr valve from gm and the engineers.
so i put it back on and the KR went away.
some one correct me if im wrong about the 114 lsa
im not for sure about that, i know by changing the cam gm could removed the egr from the 01 - 02 ls1/ls6 engines.
hope that helps
09-28-2004, 05:42 PM
#26
Originally Posted by BlackWS6LS1
That's a good idea however I would love finding the root cause.
BTW on the decay... This is my screen shot... I don't have anything under decay, or am I looking in the wrong place?
BTW on the decay... This is my screen shot... I don't have anything under decay, or am I looking in the wrong place?
We have that funky upside down speedbump in our timing map in the 4000 rpm range or so. I think either the engine does need a little less timing in that region, or there is some harmonic vibration that comes on there.... Especially since you ran 100 octane and still had it.
09-30-2004, 06:09 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by John_D.
I can't see that image. Even if I cut and paste the link. On my '98 there is a place to set both. I can't remember what it's called, but the button to get to it was next to the button to get to the attack rate.
We have that funky upside down speedbump in our timing map in the 4000 rpm range or so. I think either the engine does need a little less timing in that region, or there is some harmonic vibration that comes on there.... Especially since you ran 100 octane and still had it.
We have that funky upside down speedbump in our timing map in the 4000 rpm range or so. I think either the engine does need a little less timing in that region, or there is some harmonic vibration that comes on there.... Especially since you ran 100 octane and still had it.
Thanks again
09-30-2004, 06:40 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by John_D.
I can't see that image. Even if I cut and paste the link. On my '98 there is a place to set both. I can't remember what it's called, but the button to get to it was next to the button to get to the attack rate.
We have that funky upside down speedbump in our timing map in the 4000 rpm range or so. I think either the engine does need a little less timing in that region, or there is some harmonic vibration that comes on there.... Especially since you ran 100 octane and still had it.
We have that funky upside down speedbump in our timing map in the 4000 rpm range or so. I think either the engine does need a little less timing in that region, or there is some harmonic vibration that comes on there.... Especially since you ran 100 octane and still had it.
