ok, i understand where your coming from


that is a good question.
I'd be real interested in hearing someone like Ed's or Chris' take on this question. How much of a difference there is between similiar setups.

Also.

In cam thread 4, both chris and ed (given limited info on the setup) thought out a custom cam for A particular setup. They supplied .050 numbers and both were very similair.

I'd like to see a comparison like this, but between say roger from vinci and another company.

it would be interesting none the less.

 

Huh?? How???
Why not just tell someone to call your buddy's shop from the onset????
Yeah but camshafts are not food "samples" and no one gives them away for free! As J-rod so eloquently noted...

Who knows??? It takes a lot more info than what you have listed...

Here's what I ask for on the first go around... More as the design is finalized...

Type of Camshaft Requested:
Hydraulic Flat Tappet [ ] Solid Flat Tappet [ ]
Hydraulic Roller [ ] Solid Roller [ ]
Overhead Camshaft [ ]
Body Style/Type:
Weight With Driver:
Goals and Usage:
Engine Details:
Type of Engine:
Cubic Inches:
Bore and Stroke:
Compression:
Rod Length:
Rod Type:
RPM Range Desired:
Cylinder Head Details:
Manufacturer:
Ported or Stock:
Valve Sizes:
Port Volumes:
Combustion Chamber Size:
Flow Figures (.100" through .700"):
Valve Spring Pressures:
Rocker Arm Ratio:
Induction Details:
Intake Manifold Type:
Throttle Body or Carb Size:
Stock or Ported:
Exhaust Type:
Header or Manifold:
Shorty [ ] Mid-Length [ ] Long Tube [ ]
Primary Size: Collector Size: X-Pipe:
Exhaust Diameter: Type of Muffler:
Full Exhaust [ ] Dumps [ ]
Transmission Details:
Manual [ ] Automatic [ ]
Clutch Type: Converter Stall:
Gear Ratios:
Chassis Details:
Rear Gear Ratio:
Rear Tire Size: Diameter: Width:
Suspension Mods:
Miscellaneous Details:
Emissions Required?
Engine Management System:
Special Issues:

Easy huh!

Ed

 

i dont know ed. i think picking up a box cam would work alot better.



Is anyone using one of your grinds here from the LS1 community? I know of one who is in the works of getting a head/cam combo done from you, but I haven't talked to anyone else.

 

You really want PSJ to ban me... don't you!

Ed

 

well hes gonna have to if you keep taking away the sites business

but no sorry! i was just curious

 

i know it's the perfect way to have a custom ground cam for every particular engine. but, again we are talking about the average consumer wanting something more out of his vehicle. not having to answer 50 questions he doesn't have clue about.
because i give them a reference point to start a conversation with. and, i'm sure, i won't be far off.

now you're just being facetious. but your customers that have used your cams are your 'food' sample to the ones looking for a cam now aren't they? and they are giving their opinions about your service away for free now aren't they? imagine if all your customers when asked how their cam is from you, they turn around and say i'm sorry i don't give my opinions out for free.


nope. never easy to spec a cam for every individual motor. again your average consumer won't know the answers to half those questions. hell, i don't even know what the flow numbers are for my stock LS1 heads. not that i can't look it up. but for a 17 year old that just bought his first car wouldn't have a clue what you're talking about. and questions like that will scare him away. i'm sure you can walk them through all of the answers to select the correct cam. he'll be saying, damn all i wanted was a cam. didn't know i was going to have an interview. not like i'm marrying the damn thing.

 

all i did was bring someone in here that kept saying you have to get a reverse split cam to everyone he met. now he's changed his statements to you need a custom grind for your exact motor. and this is the grief i get. and my opinion has changed about reverse splits not working at all to they work well after 5500 rpms. now we are into the only cam that'll work is one spec'd to your exact situation. which isn't true either. most people aren't out to squeeze out every last ounce of power the motor can make. they just want something more. something that has been proven to work. not one of these special cams that if i decide to change gears, intakes, exhausts, i have to get another cam.

 

it will never happen. two companies aren't going to **** in each other's fruit loops. it 's just not good business. look at what happened when TSP announced they aren't going to sell PP products anymore. just like us, the sponsors here have their opinions on what works for them. so they aren't going to get into an arguement with another vendor over a cam.

 

there you go blaming me again

 

A REAL designer can help and guide the customer through this entire selection process. You make it seem as though the only way to get a cam is to ask some "unknown screen named" person on a forum. OMG is that a scarey thought!
Won't be far off?

You complained about the info required to do a design correctly, yet you can provide a "reference point"???? Be real!

Do you work for Vinci or something?

Where does your database for recommedations come from?

How many camshafts have you designed and/or sold?
No I am NOT! It is an accurate comparision to your "supermarket" analogy...
They are customers not samples nor "best guesses" for others to pick "their" personal combination from. Referals by a satified customer is not the same as doling out "free samples"... or specs for that matter...
Yup.. That's 99% of my business. Customer referals. All free.... However, they don't give out "reference points" to others, just the telephone number!
Opinions are one thing. Specs are another. You are confused...
Here's where you are wrong.

A lot of people know about their combination. When they have any difficulty, that's when I help. It's really not that hard of a "Tech Form" to fill out...
Again.... that's where the "good customer service" side of a business comes in. Guess you're not used to that???
No one has been scared away yet... Well, maybe you are???
If you consider cam selection as such a minor issue, stay with your "forum based camshaft" and let those who are a little more in touch with performance step up to the plate...

This needs to get back on topic so I'm done with this whole issue...

Ed

 

aren't you why i got into this thread? wasn't it me that brought you into this thread? and now we both have changed our outlooks on cam selections now haven't we?

 

i have no idea


no, me being an *** about the dyno queen was it

no, i've been about custom's way before you and I entered the 216 thread. althought, i have learned a bunch, which is why i try to get into these threads, even if i come out looking dumb.

i have proof if you would like about me being interested in customs. (hell i can't present it in any of my other cases, guess i might wanna start lookin into "proof" now)

If you recall to the 216 thread, the cam at topic was #047 (210/218 @ .050). You can sight what i said all you want, but i was set on reverse splits because it was a counter to what you and Mr. Rogers were speaking. Think it helps to see both sides.---yeah, and i think they will work better. minor details.

 

and you make it seem the only way a cam will work is if it's a custom designed cam for the exact application.
sure can. i've seen what the cams can do. i've been around for a little while. this ain't my first rodeo partner.

no. i work WITH them. big difference. but, he does want to employ me.

from many years of building my own motors. motors for other people. and selling performance products.

i've sold hundreds. i was trained by ERSON cams in my early years. designed? none. don't have to. that's what cam manufacturers are for.

so your customers aren't a reflection of your work?

so when a customer lets a guy go from a drive in his car to show him how well it is, that's not a 'free' sample? they might not give refernce points. because they don't have a clue as to where to start. or they might tell the person what cam specs they have. now it's a reference point for them to start a conversation with you about.

man don't go assuming my customer service. i haven't said anything about your arrogance to shelf cams yet now have i? or how your only thought process is unless it's custom made, it doesn't work attitude. i ran one of the largest aftermarket performance stores in the US until they closed up. it's called super shops. my background includes training from ERSON CAMS and MALLORY IGNITIONS. both which have been in so many winning REAL RACING vehicles i can't count. in the world street nationals, mike moran was sponsored by super shops. super shops sponsored don garlits. i currently own a suspension/ alignmnet shop that i started from ground up. i'm into my 5th year of success. so back off the personal insults. i didn't insult your intelligence once. here let me quote my entire last message wher i said something good about you.

if i was i wouldn't keep posting now would i?

i never said it was a minor issue. it's only ONE of the biggest decisions in making a motor. and if was going with a forum based cam, i'd be using a TR cam that everone else is using.

 

A custom spec'd camshaft compared to a recommendation I think is all Ed is trying to get across.

 

here is the E/I ratio for my heads (stg 1) flown with my ls6 intake and 1.75 pipe on the exhaust

.050 = 90%
.100 = 92%
.150 = 82%
.200 = 74%
.250 = 71%
.300 = 70%
.350 = 70%
.400 = 71%
.450 = 71%
.500 = 72%
.550 = 73%
.600 = 75%

 

i know what he was getting at. for best results, a custom spec'd cam is the best choice. but VHP cams are based off every car you see on their site. through countless hours and years of R&D. just like the scenarios i posted of the 3 cars, all will end up with the same profile within about 3* and couple hundredths lift. maybe that's why VHP came out with the 055. same as 047 but with more lift. to fit applications where the 047 would work, but more lift would make it better.

 

Hey mrr34, do you know who EDC is?

You would be wise to listen and learn rather than argue.

 

well from his website he's ford racer that know his stuff on designing motors that produce power. i'll argue my point if i want. don't think i haven't listened. just because he's really good at what he does, doesn't make him right. i'll respect anything he says. have i disagreed with any of his statements where he says custom spec'd cams are the best route? no. did i attack his intelligence by saying his customer service sucks? no. i'm sure he's great at what he does. and i'd take any of his knowledge to heart. he knows way more than me. but that doesn't make me wrong in anything i've said about the reverse split cam not doing any better than a standard split and single pattern cam until 5500 rpms.

this thread has changed from so many stances. about standard split, single pattern and reverse split cams to custom spec'd cams. even got into who runs quicker in what car. did i ever say a custom spec cam sucks? no. my main point is about the so called 'crippled' restricted intake. somehow it needs a reverse split cam because it's so restricted. but yet in all of the 2 dynos shown here the reverse split doesn't overtake a single pattern or standard split until 5500 rpms? doesn't look like a restriction until you try to surpase it's designed parameters.

end result. you don't know which design cam will work until you test it. who's to say EDCs first shot at a cam won't be the best one? just because he spec'd it with all those questions doesn't mean it'll be the best one for that application. the person that bought it from him might say hey that worked great. but i was looking for this out of it. his custom design might be the closest anyone will get on the first shot. but it may not be the exact one.

just like dyno tuning. you have this guy emailing custom programs. he's one of the best in his field. but did he get it right on the first try? probably not. so he redoes the program. but he's the best. what did he do wrong? nothing.

 

it's Mr Vinci. you were a custom spec'd cam that had to be a reverse because of the intake restrictions. what are you now? nothing wrong with presenting another side of a subject. but when presented with proof it's not, then why keep saying it is.

 

now only if Ed would answer his damn emails ...

and its also the people who know all that info on his cam form that are putting out the best numbers and the fastest times. and the ones that dont wonder why there down on times and numbers from people who have the same setups...