Again, "none of those cams"... Understand that its all the same camshaft. Its only one cam, not 3 cams. I'm citing duration at three points on the same cam. Its a positive split cam at .006, its a symetric cam @ .050, and its a reverse split @ .200. What I'm trying to point out is that you have artificially limited yourself by looking at only one point on the cam. You have also limited yourself by by looking at one dyno graph and calling it gospel.

I've never turned anyone away from discussing cams. I have spoken via PM and email NUMEROUS times. I'm just saying I'm not going to post the complete specs on a cam in a public forum. If you buy a cam, you get a cam card, etc... You just don't get it for free.

 

honestly, you'd have to call and talk to roger on how he chooses VEs. i can't answer that one. he'll be more than happy to discuss cam profiles with you.

 

i understand. you are only protecting your interests on not posting cam specs in a public area. and i respect that. as far as calling things gospel. if that's all the information i have, then i draw my conclusions from the information presented to me. i have been waiting for others to post their results showing where a reverse split has made a positive difference below 5500 rpms.

just like sportside 5.3 said, we only get specs listed to us at .004 or .006 and .050. and that's where all these terms of reverse split, single pattern, and standard split come from.

when you see specs like this:
280/280 @ .006 230/230 @.050 on your cam card, guess what? you would call it a single pattern cam. do you agree?

272/280 @ .004 210/218 @ .050 on your cam card, you'd call this a standard split. correct?

then you have the exceptions to the rule. like your cams and those like you posted. depending on the point you look at, it can classifed as all three.

question for you. when you give your cam card out when you make a cam, does it have duration at all lift points? say .006, .050, .100, .200, .300, .400, .500, etc?

i am glad you and others are here to show people there is more to a cam other than .006 and .050. but, the industry made it the standard. now, we have to convince the industry to change it.

 

um hello back at you. i was refering to the cams i posted. not you one cam at different lobe points.

and when i asked you and EDC to spec me a cam, i wasn't looking for all points. the .006 and .050 would've been sufficuent for this thread. because again, that's what the industry has set the parameters at. you blame me for what the industry set the standard at.

no problem. understood. and there has been plenty of 'box' grind cams out there that haven't had any complaints on either. back in the early 90s, my first cam was the comp cam 280H. i didn't complain a bit about it. i was going quicker with it, a 650DP, and PERFORMER RPM intake over another guy with the same car that had the 292H, 750 DP, and victor jr intake. i had 3.42 gears. he had 4.10 gears. man was he pissed.

 

Doesn't matter wether the cam is symetrical, asymetrical, reverse, standard, single pattern, single-reverse-single. .. what matters is the cam accomplishes the goals set by the customer. I have NEVER gone into a project thinking it has to be this way.

True story, a customer of mine in IA had a blower engine to do for a hurry up grudge street race (I DO NOT AGREE WITH THAT TYPE OF RACING) using a BBC. The heads were through togethers, terrible with a 10-71. Due to CID and exhaust flow inthe 50% range, I ended up with a cam with 28 degrees more on the exhaust. I have never seen a cam so crutched. . . .Well long story short, car won, engine ran like a raped ape and according to the customer better then his $25K bullet that had lost a rod some weeks prior. Moral of the story. . .it's not what you got, its the combination of the GOT!!

Chris

 

good deal.

 

I bet V8er never thought this post would have this much action.

Chris

 

Whats the deal with JRP's low 70% range exhaust-intake ratio threw the mid-lift section?

Could the head porting play a part in this?

 

Hey Ed,
I guess after 6 years the day has come. . .Curtis VS Straub. . .so what will it be, average power over the curve or peak numbers?

Prize; Hmm dinner at St. Elmo's during PRI? That work?

Chris

 

Whats going on?

 

One customer and a cam from each of us.

Chris

 

what combination is the test sample?

 

With a custom grind, say 236* @ .050, no two cams for different combo's should be exact @ all lifts. If this is the case, when ordering a custom grind, why would you choose a cam with a certain duration @ .050 lift? How on earth do you choose a starting point? Would it be .050 just because it's 'the norm'?

I have a 236/242-112 (@.050) custom solid cam that was ground for my last combo-75mm intake system/3" single exhaust/heads were only 71% intake to exhaust.
Now I'm @ a true 90mm intake system (yes, even the MAF)/3" dual X system w/ stepped LT's/12.25:1 SCR. I was recommended a 236/236-112 for this combo because of my extra free exhaust system. *BUT*, my new heads are barely @ 73-74% intake to exhaust flow. Would I not still need some crutching for the exhaust? The exhaust system is only going to flow what the heads will give it-common sense. If I over-scavange by giving it too much exhaust duration, what sort of drawbacks would I be looking at? Torque loss? BTW, Comp has nothing between 236/236, and 236/242 in 'street' solid form-go figure...

I've been through three cam techy's (custom cam vendors) and none of the three cared to let me pick their brains. They all gave me a 'that's just what you need'-not much sincerity. For what I've spent so far on this last project, that aint good enough...Any one of you few that are very experienced care to help a fellow gear-head out? This is the last grind I'll be doing for a while so I'm scraping for perfect...

 

CS,

Well, to be "really" fair, I better send "the project" a race cam and you need to send a dual purpose cam...

As for the bet, I'm game but it can't be PRI. With all that's happened this summer, it looks like a no-go for me this year.

NoseUp:

I'll have to side with the Cam Tech's that you spoke to. Good information is not free, nor should it ever be. There's a boatload of "Desktop Dyno" information available from any forum, including this one, but I for one don't race fantasy video games! As always in life, you get what you pay for.

I'd be more than happy to dole out some FREE pertinant camshaft data to anyone that can provide me with positively accurate IRS legal advice as well as some big money-making financial information for the same fee! FREE!

As in any venture, good advice/information comes at a price!

Ed

 

EDC,
Thats fair.

Nose,
Look up J-rods 2 x camshaft discussion post and then Denzss discussion on CFM, get a bag a chips and a tall glass of something and read. After that, if you don't have a good grasp on cams then I don't know what else to do.

Chris

 

Hey Ed,
Is the stock GTO cam a reverse split at .050"?

Chris
Just asking because you are the proud owner and someone posted these specs. . .
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8210

 

Don't know yet...

When I rip into this thing I'll "doctor" it and see what it is....

I'll probably get a Jesel belt drive to make all the cam swaps this thing will get a lot easier!

Ed

 

OK, here ya go. The only pass on Sunday - I broke the 5/6 shift fork on this pass - 11.82 @ 90

I don't know if you can hear what you want or not.

 

I've DD'd the hell out of my combo. It's just as you said though, fantasy...All it seems to show is 'bigger is better'. The results completely contradict Comp's last recommendation. It's showing a 238/242-111 as my 'need' to get where I want to be. I'm tired of the guess and check game...I need some hard facts.
I've been through the cam thread, but perhaps I should swim through it again. Cams just aren't my strongest point...For every 'right' answer, there always seems to be another educated party contradicting it.

 

Critter.

i couldn't get it to work

thats ok, i just wanted to see how a 232 on a 109 stacks up to some of these other cams in idle characteristics. possibly better? b/c of good ve's...curious