Revving to 14,000 rpms?
Formula 1 cars rev that high and higher...close to 20,000 rpm. You will need a full roller bearing crank and cam, precision balanced and extremely lightweight everything, some kind of valvespring I have never seen, a big pocketbook, and big *****.
Originally Posted by ls1290
With fully forged internals, 3.25" stroke crank, 6.2" rods, titaninum valves, Comp Cam 978 dual springs, solid roller cam and rockers arms, I think you could hit 9500 rpms pretty easy.
6600 rpm clutch dump of death Administrator
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,983
Likes: 13
From: Texas
Piston speed is the big thing
If you look at an F1 motor and a Nascar motor, the piston speed of the two motors is the same, but the RPMS are double on an F1 motor. F1 motors idle at 7000RPM redline at 19.5K.
To reach that RPM you will need to destroke the motor to a super short stroke (along with a lot of other details I won't cover).
So, you need SUPER lightweight parts. and you need a ports/valvetrain/camshaft that can move the air in properly controlled fashion. The question becomes why then. At the spped you are talking about you are going to spend a lot mf money trying to keep the valvetrain and the motor itself together.
The answer is you could. But the reality is it would cost more than it would ever be worth.
If you look at an F1 motor and a Nascar motor, the piston speed of the two motors is the same, but the RPMS are double on an F1 motor. F1 motors idle at 7000RPM redline at 19.5K.
To reach that RPM you will need to destroke the motor to a super short stroke (along with a lot of other details I won't cover).
So, you need SUPER lightweight parts. and you need a ports/valvetrain/camshaft that can move the air in properly controlled fashion. The question becomes why then. At the spped you are talking about you are going to spend a lot mf money trying to keep the valvetrain and the motor itself together.
The answer is you could. But the reality is it would cost more than it would ever be worth.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 14
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From: Your front yard.
I guess I asked a question too advanced for a few of the under evolved memebers maybe thats why I keep getting laughed at. Does anyone remember everyone said man would never fly? Whats so bad about trying something different? If everyone had the same mind and same goals in life I think it would be rather boring. We wouldn't even be driving, we would all be pushing rocks around still, and saying things like unga bunga.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,937
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From: "Tr"Asheville
Ok the main set back for the standard gas powered engine as it sits in an everyday car is the valvetrain. The valvetrain is the first thing to really go out the door when revving to high. Something in it is going to let go. So step 1, eliminate your standard valvetrain.... and how do you do this you might ask? hehe.... follow the link here and you shall find the answer to some of your questions...
http://www.coatesengine.com/
-Sly
http://www.coatesengine.com/
-Sly
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TECH Addict
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Fat Chance Hotel
Originally Posted by Dole_Pineapple
I guess I asked a question too advanced for a few of the under evolved memebers maybe thats why I keep getting laughed at. Does anyone remember everyone said man would never fly? Whats so bad about trying something different? If everyone had the same mind and same goals in life I think it would be rather boring. We wouldn't even be driving, we would all be pushing rocks around still, and saying things like unga bunga.
The LS1 was designed for specific goals. Your goal of 14k is well beyond the original design of the gen III. Then we start talking about whether the trans can hold it, or the clutch... At least choose an OHC engine, or more appropriately a rotary.
If you want to design a 346ci engine that can turn rpms like a F1 motor, that's great. But don't start with the wrong platform, because that's starting from a negative position.
Originally Posted by technical
Trying to make an LS1 turn 14K rpms is analogous to using the wrong tool for the job. You should list your requirements. If an LS1 and 14k are both on that list...re-do the list.
The LS1 was designed for specific goals. Your goal of 14k is well beyond the original design of the gen III. Then we start talking about whether the trans can hold it, or the clutch... At least choose an OHC engine, or more appropriately a rotary.
If you want to design a 346ci engine that can turn rpms like a F1 motor, that's great. But don't start with the wrong platform, because that's starting from a negative position.
The LS1 was designed for specific goals. Your goal of 14k is well beyond the original design of the gen III. Then we start talking about whether the trans can hold it, or the clutch... At least choose an OHC engine, or more appropriately a rotary.
If you want to design a 346ci engine that can turn rpms like a F1 motor, that's great. But don't start with the wrong platform, because that's starting from a negative position.
i think with the stuff out today 8.5 9k rpm sounds more possible 
Originally Posted by technical
Trying to make an LS1 turn 14K rpms is analogous to using the wrong tool for the job. You should list your requirements. If an LS1 and 14k are both on that list...re-do the list.
The LS1 was designed for specific goals. Your goal of 14k is well beyond the original design of the gen III. Then we start talking about whether the trans can hold it, or the clutch... At least choose an OHC engine, or more appropriately a rotary.
If you want to design a 346ci engine that can turn rpms like a F1 motor, that's great. But don't start with the wrong platform, because that's starting from a negative position.
The LS1 was designed for specific goals. Your goal of 14k is well beyond the original design of the gen III. Then we start talking about whether the trans can hold it, or the clutch... At least choose an OHC engine, or more appropriately a rotary.
If you want to design a 346ci engine that can turn rpms like a F1 motor, that's great. But don't start with the wrong platform, because that's starting from a negative position.
buy an F1 car.
Originally Posted by Dole_Pineapple
I guess I asked a question too advanced for a few of the under evolved memebers maybe thats why I keep getting laughed at. Does anyone remember everyone said man would never fly? Whats so bad about trying something different? If everyone had the same mind and same goals in life I think it would be rather boring. We wouldn't even be driving, we would all be pushing rocks around still, and saying things like unga bunga.
1.) Engines can be made to spin 14,000 and up RPM, nothing novel, advanced, or imaginative there.
2.) It costs a lot of money to do it reliably.
3.) Most of us, including you, can't afford it.
No amount of imagination is going to change the forces acting on a connecting rod and wrist pin at high speeds.
If we all wasted our time re-proving what's already been proven...repeatedly...we'd all still be living in caves wondering why our rock-wheeled cars won't spin to 14,000 rpm. Or, like the French and German engineers trying to figure out why their planes wouldn't fly...reproving that their math was wrong. (same weenies who told Orville and Wilbur Wright that their plane wouldn't fly)
Now go think up something really revolutionary, that's never been done but has a tiny glimmer of possibility, and have a go at it.
Until then, unga bunga from one of the many people who have already forgotten more about internal combustion engines than you presently know.
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 273
Likes: 1
From: Trois-Rivières (Québec / Canada)
Originally Posted by Dole_Pineapple
I guess I asked a question too advanced for a few of the under evolved memebers maybe thats why I keep getting laughed at. Does anyone remember everyone said man would never fly? Whats so bad about trying something different? If everyone had the same mind and same goals in life I think it would be rather boring. We wouldn't even be driving, we would all be pushing rocks around still, and saying things like unga bunga.
"One step at the time", That's the only logical way to progress in my book.
Launching!
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 200
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From: Gainesville, Florida
Here ya go:
http://www.race-cars.com/engsold/cos...1/dfrx01ss.htm
http://www.race-cars.com/engsold/cos...77724596ss.htm (1.5L 750-1000hp)
http://www.race-cars.com/engsold/cos...1/dfrx01ss.htm
http://www.race-cars.com/engsold/cos...77724596ss.htm (1.5L 750-1000hp)
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 14
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From: Your front yard.
[QUOTE=crainholio]The cold hard facts about the question you posed are:
1.) Engines can be made to spin 14,000 and up RPM, nothing novel, advanced, or imaginative there.
2.) It costs a lot of money to do it reliably.
3.) Most of us, including you, can't afford it.
Wondering where you came up with that last conclusion.
1.) Engines can be made to spin 14,000 and up RPM, nothing novel, advanced, or imaginative there.
2.) It costs a lot of money to do it reliably.
3.) Most of us, including you, can't afford it.
Wondering where you came up with that last conclusion.
