This thread is full of all kinds of good info. Keep up the good work Tony, If money ever gets better I am planing on running some of your heads.

 

So any ideas on availability yet?

 

As was stated earlier in this thread, we are currently accepting deposits and processing orders on large chamber (72cc) 225's. We will start to ship those jobs in early December and continue to try and fill our back order as effectively as possible. Keep in mind, we can mill the 72 cc version down as low as 65 cc's and anywhere in the middle, so if that fits your bill don't waste time getting together with AFR or your favorite dealer to get something on order. The lead time is somewhere around 5-6 weeks (not including the holidays). In regards to the smaller chamber (62 cc) 225's, we are doing the best we can, but with the shows (SEMA & PRI), the holidays, and the fact we close the last week of December, there is a very good chance we won't start taking orders and shipping 62 cc versions till January of 05'. I hate to be the constant bearer of bad news to you guys regarding timeframes but we are doing the best we can....not to mention we can't simply ignore and drop the responsibility we have every month to manufacture, produce, and ship the entire rest of our product line to get the small chamber 225's finished. It's a balancing act of all our resources and we are busier than we have ever been at this time of year....not complaining by any means...just stating facts and trying to share with you the reasons things go longer than anticipated. In a way, I have given you guys a first hand glimpse into the development of a very promising product and I try my best at "keeping you guys in the loop", but things dont always go as smoothly as you would like and they NEVER go as fast as you would like. I myself am waiting for the small chamber version for my personal car that many of you have seen our 205 results from....I thought for sure I would have had a set of 225's on my car for the event at Bakersfield on the 4th of December. And trust me when I tell you that no one is excited (and nervous) as I to get a set on my car and see what they can do.

Unfortunately, we ALL have to wait....But I will go bug Guy in engineering again for everyone's sake on Monday

Thanks for your patience and support,
Tony M.

PS Actually, a part of me is glad I will finally have the oppurtunity to "flog" the mild 205 street package currently in my car at a good track with hopefully a reasonably low D/A....Looking for some low ET's, big MPH and NO broken parts!

 

Just asking a question on the flow range (CFM for the engine) that the 225 is preferable. Extrapolating the comments ('above 7000 rpm on a 346), are you saying that the 225 is best above 700cfm, the 205 below 600cfm, with the grey area in between?

David

 

The 225, 72cc chamber is made for the big bore stuff you need a gasket with a bore size of 4.135 min. i dont think a 1.750 pipe would make much difference, exhaust flow has never been a problem on ls-1 style heads.

 

There are flow numbers for both 3.9 and 4.125 bores on this thread. Both with the same 1.875 pipe.

 

If anyone is looking to get a set of these AFR heads just send me an e-mail, I already have some on my shelfs.

 

So where do we stand on the head-to-head (ha!) comparison of 205 vs. 225 on a stock bottom end LS1? Which would be preferable for use with 224/224/114 .588 and say 7 psi from a charger? Other components would be ported TB, LSX 78mm intake, and FLP long tubes... not sure how much, if any, impact from those.

Opinions? Facts?

Thanks

 

"The only thing that I do not like about the 225s is they require a 4.130 gasket. Good or bad, I dont know how that is going to work with a 3.898 or 3.905 bore."

Is this true? What gaskets would I run with a 382 stroker/stock bore motor (3.91)????

My cam is 242/250 .611/.619 on a 114 lobe, and I will be running at least 200 shot of nitrous..

SDB

 

Hey, Tony @ AFR... it's been a couple of months since we've heard from you... any news on the 225's?

We sure appreciate your info...

 

I talked with him yesterday about a frew things concerning my set-up and he says the AFR 225's with the 59cc chamber will probably be out in late February/early March. Hope that helps. That's all I know currently.

 

Should we expect the same time frame on the cam?

 

Hey Guys...

First off I would like to address the situation of the larger chamber diameter (4.100) of the 225's on the "stock" 3.900 bore. Besides the fact you MUST use a large bore gasket with ANY 225 install (4.130 minimum bore diameter), it poses no other problems whatsoever, flows well, and will make great power on a stock bore engine build. It is NOT an issue. As soon as some "225" stock displacment engines start putting up big numbers it will long be forgotten about. Every hard running BBC buildup in the country that has not been bored to 4.600 inches has combustion chambers that slightly "overhang" the cylinder bore.

The million dollar question is when will the small chamber (62 cc) versions of the 225's be ready to ship. The answer to that is I don't exactly know....my best guess is that we might start shipping the first wave of 62 cc heads late February to mid-March. Even that guesstimate could prove to be conservative but I certainly hope not. The bottom line is that we are extremely busy and doing the best we can till we get into a much larger manufacturing facility slated for the tail end of 05'.

My best advice to anyone trying to assure they get in on the first "wave" of castings is to contact us directly and get yourselves on the 62cc 225 "Pre-order" list. This list is comprised of people that would have given us a firm order and a deposit had we been willing to accept it. AFR will contact all of the people (and distributors) on this list as soon as Engineering gives Production the green light to start cutting 225's on the CNC machines. Once all of the people on the Pre-order list have been contacted and have their orders placed, we will start placing orders in the "que" based on first come first serve. If your NOT on the "list", the chances of you getting or seeing a 62 cc 225 before the end of March is slim. I anticipate a pretty good demand on the small chamber stuff so plan ahead so you don't string yourself along till the weather starts to break.

I wish I had better news to report regarding delivery times, but for the customers who can put up with the wait, I think the end results will more than justify the delay. I think LEGITAMATE (NO dyno tricks and BS) 500+ RWHP stock displacement PUMP gas engines will become a reality for the guys that take the time to dial in their combinations with the next iteration of AFR's proven "recipe".

Thanks for the support and putting up with the seemingly endless "lead time".


Regards,
Tony Mamo

PS Trust me when I tell you that a big factor in the "delay" was to make sure that even with the different chamber configuration, the 62 cc version was every bit as killer as the 72 cc version. Chamber shapes play a big role in flow figures and accomplising this has been no small feat. Once again, we didn't want to "rush" a product to market simply because you guys are screaming for it....fact is the delay has probably cost us some business but we weren't willing to compromise the end results....and when the smoke clears, it's the "end results" that we will always be judged by.

 

Tony,

I was at the shop right after the first dyno pulls and had a look at your 205#'s while the test car was still on the rollers.

No doubt about it, You have the right stuff and I am looking forward to a set of 225s w/62 CC heads for my Z06 this spring.

I have not intention of boring or stroking the engine. My question is, would it be worth the trouble to have Andy relieve my cylinder bores to help flow and help unshoud the valves a little more on the stock bore size? I did that with all my bore restricted competition big blocks which gave me a little extra power.

Thanks and keep that "power pipeline" full, you have customers waiting!

 

Hey Tony,
Just ordered the 225's with 72cc chamber for my 408 that thunderracing is building with a cam somewhere in the 244-252 range with 620 lift. What type of power would you expect from this with 11.2-1 compression ratio.

 

Tony...

I just had my current heads cc'd....they are 69cc. I have a stock bore, 4.000 stroke engine (382 cu in.). My pistons are Lunati LS11 (-1cc dome volume, 3.898 bore, 6.125 rod length, 9.240 block height, 15 degree valve angle, mass=373). I think my CR is about 11.2-1 right now. I am installing a bigger cam then I had before and am worried about P-V clearance...242/250, .611/.619 114 lobe

I want to keep my CR the same, use the AFR 225 heads (I would asume 72cc milled a little), and be able to use the cam without P-V issues....with the information I have provided, would you recommend the AFR 225 72cc milled or the new 62cc ones? How much milling would you recommend on the current AFR 225 72cc? I am using the stock .051 MLS GM head gasket. I have 7.4 Tickflow moly pushrods, will these be adequate or will I have to measure? I am also planing on reusing the Comp R roller lifters and stock rockers (1.7 ratio).

Thansk

SDB

 

any power numbers with forced induction setups yet with the 225's or the 205's?

 

Tony, can you still use the mock up head that was used for the 205s to flycut or do you need something else to clear the new 225s 62cc? Anyways i know the valves are larger what size are they exactly? and can we get the proper gaskets from you for the stock 346? Thanks for all the info and im sure im not the only one anxiously waiting!

 

Let me try to get everyone quickly caught up here...


Warp 10,

Regarding relieving the top of the cylinder bores, my answer to you would be it isn't necessary and without doing so you would still see excellent results....BUT, if it was done properly and you milled the head slightly more to offset the CR loss from the material removal, you might find a few HP by addressing that. If I find some time (like that will happen....LOL) I would like to try to notch the 3.900 fixture on my bench to simulate that scenario, but I'm sure there would be slight increase in flow. Keep in mind that you cant go any lower than the top ring land of the piston, which isnt a whole lot of room with a factory slug. In fact, I have one next to me and it looks like the maximum depth of your notch could only be about .150 or so.....Questionable on whether it would be worth the trouble. If I do any experimenting I will let all of you know.

Neustrom,

Regarding your 225 headed 408, assuming a FAST 90, 1.875 header, and the cam and compression you mention, I would like to see somewhere around 500-510 RWHP....I noticed you have a 4.11 gear and a 12 bolt which certainly will sap some power. What kind of numbers were you hoping for? One thing for sure, is the torque output should be strong as well.

SDB,

If you want the "same" CR, than its simply a matter of milling the 225's a little to match the combustion chamber volume of your current heads. I did the math quickly for you and you currently have about 10.96 taking into account your thicker head gasket. (I used .008 out of hole in my figuring). I would recommend a thinner head gasket like the .040 225 gasket we offer and that would get you to a legit 11.1 to 1 Regarding piston to valve, its simply an issue that needs to be check....assuming you weren't on the ragged edge with your other cylinder heads, more than likely you would be in good shape with the 225 AFR's. Pushrods, like P to V, must be checked with an adjustable to verify length....I won't make a "blanket statement" that you should be OK, etc., etc. 7.400 might very well work out for you, but a 7.350 or a 7.40 might work out better. It simply needs to be checked.

KissMySS,

We have a few dealers that are finishing up some projects with some blown 225 applications....Will share some input from those test results as soon as I am privied to them. Im sure in the next 30-60 days, a fair amout of results will start to surface from the 72 cc 225's we have been shipping. It seems it took time for all the 205 results to finally surface but I think at this point we have seen a fair share of those.

NO5.0,

I would prefer you to wait for the actual 225 do to mock-up with. There would be diferences between the 205 and the 225 small chamber. The valve sizes for the entire 225 line is 2.080 Intake and 1.600 on the exhaust. The proper 225 large bore diameter .040 gasket is AFR PN 6848 and we usually keep them in stock....they are 9 cc's total volume.

Thanks guys....sorry for the delay in getting back to everyone....

Tony M.

 

thanks Tony, will you be offering the mock up head to rent for the notching. Also, should i mill the 225s or leave em at 62cc. ill be using the G5x3 cam and adding some n02 to the combo. Thanks again. Also what do you think the pricing will be on these with the 921s on em?