Will this work?
12-25-2004, 06:00 AM
#1
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Will this work? Can I take a Z06 cam and bolt it directly to my 2000 Trans am LS1? I know I sound noobish, but I'm looking for 30-40 RWHP and I've read a few books that state with just the cam its gonna increase 40+ hp on a stock fbody. The only things I'm really asking are:
1: Will it work, the swap out.
2: Will I need a tune? (hopefully not and the stock ECU works)
3: Will I need new springs/retainers/locks, etc.
Thanks for any help@!
1: Will it work, the swap out.
2: Will I need a tune? (hopefully not and the stock ECU works)
3: Will I need new springs/retainers/locks, etc.
Thanks for any help@!
12-25-2004, 06:30 AM
#2
!LS1 11 Second Club
1. Stock ls1 springs won't work with the ls6 cam. You'll need at least '02 ls6 valve springs.
2. You'll need to raise your rev limiter and shiftpoints.
3. See 1. Stock retainers are fine.
2. You'll need to raise your rev limiter and shiftpoints.
3. See 1. Stock retainers are fine.
12-26-2004, 03:22 AM
#3
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Ok, so it wont need to be computer tuned? Putting in the springs will be fine. I've already adjusted my rev limiter and shift points because of the gears.
12-26-2004, 07:13 AM
#4
You will always need a tune to get the most out of any kind of cam swap... however, it isn't absolutely necessary with that cam.
Also, you're going to want to have full bolt-ons (headers, exhaust, throttle body, etc) to get that kind of hp jump from a cam. Without the bolt-ons, 20 rwhp peak would be more realistic.
Another thing to take into account is a cam like the LS6 will show gains above 4500 rpms, but will be pretty much stock all the way up to that point... so it won't be like gaining that kind of hp from idle all the way up.
Also, you're going to want to have full bolt-ons (headers, exhaust, throttle body, etc) to get that kind of hp jump from a cam. Without the bolt-ons, 20 rwhp peak would be more realistic.
Another thing to take into account is a cam like the LS6 will show gains above 4500 rpms, but will be pretty much stock all the way up to that point... so it won't be like gaining that kind of hp from idle all the way up.
12-26-2004, 08:23 AM
#6
!LS1 11 Second Club
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
And you'll need longer push rods.
Much debated.
In theory, yes, the ls6 cam swap on to an ls1 will need longer pushrods.
But, plenty of people are using 7.4" hardened pushrods.
12-26-2004, 08:44 AM
#7
TECH Senior Member
Originally Posted by SouthFL.02.SS
Much debated.
In theory, yes, the ls6 cam swap on to an ls1 will need longer pushrods.
But, plenty of people are using 7.4" hardened pushrods.
In theory, yes, the ls6 cam swap on to an ls1 will need longer pushrods.
But, plenty of people are using 7.4" hardened pushrods.
Idealy it should be 7.42
This is why a lot of people not using longer p-rods also do not get the desired HP gains they are looking for because of wrong lifter preload, not to speak of noisy vavetrain.
Do it right or don't do it.
Sorry but I hate this "close enough" attitude when it comes to motors.
Last edited by PREDATOR-Z; 12-26-2004 at 08:51 AM.
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12-26-2004, 09:44 AM
#9
!LS1 11 Second Club
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
Then they are using longer p-rods since the LS1 p-rods are 7.38
Idealy it should be 7.42
This is why a lot of people not using longer p-rods also do not get the desired HP gains they are looking for because of wrong lifter preload, not to speak of noisy vavetrain.
Do it right or don't do it.
Sorry but I hate this "close enough" attitude when it comes to motors.
Idealy it should be 7.42
This is why a lot of people not using longer p-rods also do not get the desired HP gains they are looking for because of wrong lifter preload, not to speak of noisy vavetrain.
Do it right or don't do it.
Sorry but I hate this "close enough" attitude when it comes to motors.
12-26-2004, 11:38 PM
#11
TECH Senior Member
Originally Posted by 2000TARiceKilla
So when I order pushrods, I'll make sure to order hardened 7.4's. Any other suggestions?
Or 7.4's and shim the rocker stands. (for correct lifter preload)
12-27-2004, 01:33 AM
#12
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
I would use 7.45
Or 7.4's and shim the rocker stands. (for correct lifter preload)
Or 7.4's and shim the rocker stands. (for correct lifter preload)
The way I see it is the valve end of the rocker does not move (regardless if it has shims or not because the tip of the rocker will always be in contact with the valve and in the same position). Now by putting shims under the stands the pushrod end of the rocker raises and you get less preload then w/o any shims at all.
This is assuming a 7.45" pushrod is close to ideal for correct preload....which it may or may not be. The LS6 valves are .050" shorter than LS1 valves (from what I remember), so the actual length of the pushrod would be .050"/ (1.70 rocker ratio). This would be added to the stock LS1 pushrod length of 7.380".
????
IMO, to make it all very simple, dont pull your hair out over the pushrod debate...it has gone 'round and 'round many times before.
Here's my advice: Get some 7.4" pushrods and some cam other than the LS6 becuase you'll want something bigger than that eventually and it is a lot of work to swap it all out over again. If you want something conservative that gives good power, just look at the cams everyone was using last year....things in the 220/220 to 224/224 @ .050" specs. You dont need high lift...somewhere in the .550-.570 is fine and not so tough on the valvetrain. If you want a little better idle, go with a 114 LSA over a 112 LSA...these cams dont lope like crazy and arent always stalling and giving you problems. Hell, half the people you meet wouldnt even know there is a cam in there.
A friend of mine put down 394 rwhp with a 224 cam, headers, and an LS6 intake...his car was an M6. Do you need more than that?
Mine is an untuned auto with specs in my sig. It idles great after a little throttlebody tweak....hasnt stalled once.
Last edited by 99ssleeper; 12-27-2004 at 01:48 AM.
12-27-2004, 01:53 AM
#13
if this guy is truly new to motors period and cars, then he has literally no idea what u mean by shimming and why u need longer pushrods and all this other blabber lol.. though it woudn't be a bad idea to learn first.
as far as shift points and stuff, adjusting for a gear and a cam maybe two different things... u would adjust ur shiftpoints and rev limiter slightly higher probably with this cam to take advantage of power up top you've gained!
*** NOW, if u want the ls6 cam.... go here man... just go here, order this, pay to have it put in right, and pay to have it dyno tuned... http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/2720...S1-Engines.htm
but for about 500 more $ u could have a cam and cam kit that would be straight up nasty, however u will have to change the "springs" every 20,000 miles possibly, but by then u may have even learned to do it urself!!! i would seriously reccommend putting it off two weeks and doing a search on here for cams and general info, or i would contact some of the sponsors like ls1speed.com, MTI, frutral, TSP, SDPC and some of the other sponsors over here.. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
never hurts to learn! i know more about cams then i did when i first come onto this site, that is for sure.
goodluck man!
as far as shift points and stuff, adjusting for a gear and a cam maybe two different things... u would adjust ur shiftpoints and rev limiter slightly higher probably with this cam to take advantage of power up top you've gained!
*** NOW, if u want the ls6 cam.... go here man... just go here, order this, pay to have it put in right, and pay to have it dyno tuned... http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/2720...S1-Engines.htm
but for about 500 more $ u could have a cam and cam kit that would be straight up nasty, however u will have to change the "springs" every 20,000 miles possibly, but by then u may have even learned to do it urself!!! i would seriously reccommend putting it off two weeks and doing a search on here for cams and general info, or i would contact some of the sponsors like ls1speed.com, MTI, frutral, TSP, SDPC and some of the other sponsors over here.. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
never hurts to learn! i know more about cams then i did when i first come onto this site, that is for sure.
goodluck man!
12-27-2004, 01:56 AM
#14
One more thing...I see your car is an automatic. My new advice (lol) is save your money and get a higher stall torque converter. It's far better than a cam, plus it will give you more cam options down the road.
However, to answer the questions you asked since I havent done this yet...
The swap will work. You dont really need a tune, it will idle and drive fine. You will need the LS6 springs (or other aftermarket springs which are usually good to .600" lift, much more than a LS6 cam)...your stock retainers and locks will work with the LS6 springs and some aftermarket ones (Comp 918s).
However, to answer the questions you asked since I havent done this yet...
The swap will work. You dont really need a tune, it will idle and drive fine. You will need the LS6 springs (or other aftermarket springs which are usually good to .600" lift, much more than a LS6 cam)...your stock retainers and locks will work with the LS6 springs and some aftermarket ones (Comp 918s).
12-27-2004, 01:59 AM
#15
that cam kit from sdpc would be the easiest route for him.. that and a good installer and tuner, or have the installer pick out a cam for you and talk things over with ya!
BUT YES, though u dont need a stall with the ls6 cam... i promise u u can knock more time off ur 1/4 mile times with sticky tires, something like a m/t dragradial and even a cheaper stall like a tci 3000 or 3500 then with that cam... though both together would be a good combo!!
BUT YES, though u dont need a stall with the ls6 cam... i promise u u can knock more time off ur 1/4 mile times with sticky tires, something like a m/t dragradial and even a cheaper stall like a tci 3000 or 3500 then with that cam... though both together would be a good combo!!
12-27-2004, 02:04 AM
#16
oh lol.. as far as mild cams go... CHECK OUT THUNDERRACING FOR THERE TR224 cam... or even there OLD MAN camshaft and basic install kit with everything u need, and this cam doesn't require computer tuning... ill give u the link to this site as well.. i would not recommend running anything other then the z06 cam or old man camshaft without installing a converter first or at the same time...
http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog...&vid=3&pcid=51
http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog...&vid=3&pcid=51
12-27-2004, 02:07 AM
#17
I thinkthe first question should be....2000TARiceKilla, have you worked on cars before or have automotive mechanical know-how?
Not to be a dick, but if not then I dont suggest a cam or a converter...they arent a basic mod like an airlid is. And if someone is going to do the install for you, I think you should get the most for your money.
Not to be a dick, but if not then I dont suggest a cam or a converter...they arent a basic mod like an airlid is. And if someone is going to do the install for you, I think you should get the most for your money.
12-27-2004, 02:12 AM
#18
yes definetly.. , hey i know this is off topic, but what is ur complete setup that ran 12.22? dont guess u have any dyno #'s or a racewieght do ya? also where did u get that midwest stall?
its says untuned but if it were id put ya in the 11 sec club brotha!
its says untuned but if it were id put ya in the 11 sec club brotha!
12-27-2004, 08:03 AM
#19
TECH Senior Member
This is assuming a 7.45" pushrod is close to ideal for correct preload....which it may or may not be.
The LS6 valves are .050" shorter than LS1 valves (from what I remember), so the actual length of the pushrod would be .050"/ (1.70 rocker ratio). This would be added to the stock LS1 pushrod length of 7.380".
See, I run an aftermaket cam with 241 LS1 heads but with LS6 valves and 918 springs. I have 7.35 p-rods and i'm a little loose on the preload so I had to shim rocker stand, since stock rockers are non adjustable and at 22lbs/ft.
I could have avoided that by using aftermarket adjustable rockers but I saw no need to do so.
The majority of lifter failures encoutered are due to improper preload. Get that right and even with XE-R lobes your valvetrain shouldn't be more noisy than stock.
12-27-2004, 01:21 PM
#20
Originally Posted by ZMC_Racing
yes definetly.. , hey i know this is off topic, but what is ur complete setup that ran 12.22? dont guess u have any dyno #'s or a racewieght do ya? also where did u get that midwest stall?
its says untuned but if it were id put ya in the 11 sec club brotha!
its says untuned but if it were id put ya in the 11 sec club brotha!
It isn't tuned yet because I think I want to tune it myself.