Mr. Bungle

iTrader: (13)

Nevermind i just read it on there site. Does that worry you at all to have stock rods? How much power are you planning on running?

racer7088

The main thing you will need are good pistons and rings and the rings setup for the power you are going to make. The stock crank is really pretty strong as everyone has seen. I'd certainly replace the powdered metal rods with the H-beams for some incredible cheap insurance. We keep one or two all forged 347 shortblock in stock now for a decent price and we are finishing one up right now. I already have some Diamond 347 Blower pistons in stock for a 6.125 long rod that are 9cc dishes. Thats 9.5 to one with a 66cc head like an LS1 or 9 to 1 with a 72cc 6.0 truck head.

JZ'sTA

iTrader: (23)

I guess I will throw in my long 2 cent.
First off the stock crank is fine.`One of the best parts in a LSx motor.
To whoever said they would first go with a 383 and then upgrade to a 408 makes no since because both motor's cost almost exactly the same.
you can built whatever you want depending on the money you want to spend.
the cheepest 347 you will find is around 2500 bucks and that is stock crank, forged pistons and h beam rods`(probally eagle)`you could also spend 6 thousand on a 347 using better everything and a forged crank.
I would suggest going somewhere in between. There are a number of good rod choices out there, but figure on spending 1000 on rods. buy some nice pistons, use the stock crank and you should be out about 4000 dollars with no core charge.

Mr. Bungle

iTrader: (13)

Thanks i will probably stick with a 347 at this point. I can make great power for a lesser price. Well at least that is the way it seems.

Viper

iTrader: (6)

"Doesn't the LPE block have stock rods? I know it has the stock crank but i think it has stock rods as well."

Yes, but for my power levels and what I plan on doing with the car, it's fine.

Mr. Bungle

iTrader: (13)

Well then that block would be perfect. THey do great work. Good luck.

mikey

iTrader: (6)

Bottom line here is don't try to "budget" build it. Best to build it right the first time. Too many people show up at my shop with "budget" motors that are worth nothing but what the scrap man will give them. At your proposed power level, the stock crank will work but I would go with at least a Manley rod. The stock rods work very well but for the small additional cost of a billet rod, I personally think it is worth it.

MUSTANGEATER

iTrader: (10)

I'd go with a Mahle Piston matched to your application and an Eagle rod w/ an L19 bolt and a stock crank.

Mr. Bungle

iTrader: (13)

I agree i will give you guys a call monday.

Mr. Bungle

iTrader: (13)

What is your current setup and how long have you been running it. Also what kind of power are you making?? FI or NA?

Mr. Bungle

iTrader: (13)

Ttt........

mikey

iTrader: (6)

No offense guys but I wouldn't run an Eagle rod or any Eagle product in my lawn mower. Poor quality and balance issues to name two common problems that I've seen over the years. There are a few folks here that know what I am talking about. Again, not a flame just my experience.

MUSTANGEATER

iTrader: (10)

I agree that the "SIR" rods are garbage and I wouldn't let them be a paper weight out of fear of the paper damaging them lol

A regular Eagle H-beam has been tried and true for some time. I've never heard of anyone breaking one? Hell never heard of a stock rod failure? I can understand that you don't want to use something that you wouldn't use in your own motor when you build motors for your shop though.

While we're on the subject do you offer any other upgrades besides a Manley rod for your 347 CID shortblocks? Callies? Crower?

racer7088

Mikey,

I don't really know you but I do see these crankshafts everyday and that is a very biased statement to say the least and it is also a slap in the face of all the people on the boards here that do use Eagle stuff. I've used Eagle stuff for years and in cars faster than anything on this site with no problems. We've also build tons of LS1 engines with them and so have MANY other vendors on this site and again have had NO problems other than the same ones all the other LS1 stuff has had in the beginning. I've also used Cola and Callies and Bryant and Winberg and Moldex and Velasco and Lunati.

We have our own machine shop at HPE that I run myself and we can fix stuff like counterweight interference very easily but overall we've only run into that a few times and it's fixed 30 minutes later. We can use any parts the customer chooses but why buy a 2000.00 dollar lunati crank when people run almost 8.0s without breaking stockers? I am all for everyone running Lunati cranks and we could make more money probably too if we pushed that but it certainly isn't a necessity or even anything 99.9 per cent of people would EVER notice!

Have you ever seen the Callies reluctors fall off? DO you know what's wrong on 99 % of LS1 SCAT cranks? Did you know the first Lunaties wouldn't balance either, they come with heavy metal in them already now. Do I think that the Eagles are as nice as some of these cranks? NO, but the Eagle also saves you maybe 800.00 over these other cranks that can be spent elsewhere where it can do much more good if you are on a limited budget as most people are.

Eagle has come a long way in the last 5 years in case people don't know and they have some of the best stuff for the money out there. They have stuff in the Buick and Ford venues that NO ONE else has for the money and it all goes internal balance now too. I've seen many cranks and have two race engine crank grinders here in Houston that do a TON of the NHRA big wigs stuff here in Houston and they have no problem with the Eagle stuff either. You have to also look at the fact that less expensive parts are sometimes used by "budget" engine builders that don't do half the stuff they should right and probably half wrong and then they always blame the parts.

racer7088

There are few guys in Pro 5.0 and some of the fastest turbo 10.5 cars in the country that are still using Eagle rods and they are making 2000 HP. FWIW.

We have some H-beams that are not perfectly zero offset but only half off set compared to a regular SBC rod and clear even the narrow pin boss spacing of some of these newer LS1 pistons with NO work at all. Depending on the piston you may have to do clearancing if you use a regular SBC rod from ANY company. The LS1 specific rods are more money and we have them too but again most of the fastest stuff you've ever heard of has never used them to tell you the truth. We can get Callies and Crower and Lunati LS1 specific on-center rods.

They cost more than double as much though. I am making a huge list on compatible stuff after putting LS1 engines together over the years from low to mid 9 second NA stuff to big power adders to 500 hp 347 inch stuff. Believe me it won't all "just go together" and we're not even talking crankshafts at all.

mikey

iTrader: (6)

Erik, you missed the part where I said "no offense" and no flame intended. People that know me know that I am not like that.

I'm happy that you like the Eagle stuff and have had few problems with it. We have not, unfortunately, had that same experience. We have a 402 Iron Block here from another supplier now with an Eagle rotating and the pilot bearing hole is 0.004" too large. The pilot bearing slides in and out. So I need to tack weld it to keep it in. These are the types of things we have experienced with Eagle. Nothing seems to break once together and balanced but just poor QC on their part. Put a Lunati or Callies crank next to an Eagle and there is a clear difference in the quality of the forging and machining. But then again, there is a price to pay for that. I DO understand that budgets sometimes dictate a less expensive solution. I've never used SCAT for an LS1 so I don't know about them.

The Comp Star rods sold by Callies is an excellent alternative. It is forged off-shore but all the hardening, machining and QC is done in the USA by Callies.

I've never seen a stock rod break either. It is a very good piece. Never seen an Eagle H beam break either. I'm talking more on the quality "out of the box". Just posting my experience. I tend to "overbuild" my motors which is why I don't sell them in bulk so to speak.

MUSTANGEATER: There are quite a few upgrades available. We use GRP for Titanium or Aluminum. We've used Manley almost exclusively for steel simply based on the quality versus price of the rod. They also make an LS1 specific rod that eliminates the machining required that Erik mentioned when using an SBC rod.

Have a good new year.

Mikey

racer7088

I've seen the stock rods break but mostly only on power adders. Maybe on a few where the oil ran out too but thats not the rod's fault. Never seen an Eagle H-beam fail really even on some truly stupendously NOS engines!

We have had the pilot bearing issue too on some Eagles but those cranks go in autos usually. Believe me if you aren't a machine shop there have been some problems with the others that cost twice as much that are much more severe! How about no thrust surface being machined on some SCAT LS1 cranks? How about Callies LS1 crank reluctors falling off? How about putting 7 pieces of heavy metal in some early Lunaties?

Anyway if you are a real shop you catch all that stuff anyway (I assume we have to check or measure all of these dimensions) and deal with it or return it and get another but the money is still better spent on heads cams and intakes in my opinion. The crank is the least important operator in the horsepower and reliability equaition on these LSx engines that I see everyday. I've have seen tons of Callies and Lunatis with the mains and rods burned out of them since the guys putting the together didn't know they had .0038 main clearance or worse maybe .0008 and the same for the rods and then they blame the parts makers when they just slapped it together without checking anything.

The problem I see most with all the stuff I have fixed with multimillion dollar cranks that are falling apart and such is WHO put it together in the first place usually anyway and never really the parts. I mean I've seen two engines bought from vendors on here that shall remain nameless that had pistons better suited to an NA 500 hp level that then had some "coating" popped on them and then were proclaimed to be Nitrous pistons! Of course they burned through the third pass down the track.

Mr. Bungle

iTrader: (13)

Uhh well i believe eagle has a great product and i believe everyone else does as well. You are probably right in saying that most failures are due to the person assembling the block so lets just leave it at that.

MUSTANGEATER

iTrader: (10)

Mikey thanks for responding I was wondering what kind of other parts you put in your 347's, I've got a little 347 myself.

The more I read about the compstar rods by Callies they seem to be a rebadge Eagle, however I may be wrong and I'm just making an assumption based on what I could gather from elsewhere.

I agree Eagle have always worked and you can't beat the bang for the buck. I've seen plenty of 1000 + HP cars run them and never have any problems.

I was wondering if you could tell me more about the specific machine work you'd have to do to an SBC specific rod? I was thinking that a standard .927 wrist pin rod would work fine in an LS1?


Thanks,

Floyd.

racer7088

Floyd,

The rod big end width is around .940 which is also the cylinder bank offset of an LS1 so the rods are not offset at all on the LS1.

On the older SBC the rods are off set towards each other on each journal from .030 to .060 depending on which rods you get. The cylinder bank offset is not as much as on the LS1 anotherwords.

Because of this sometimes the rods must be slightly narrowed or the piston must be clearanced on one side to give them clearance if the pin boss area is tight.