cyphur

iTrader: (10)

Bo is a good guy to work with. On the other hand, I'd go wet only b/c I'm planning on FI down the road. Also considering an iron block 408. You should too, its pretty cheap compared to re-sleeved block.

Ratical

iTrader: (82)

I would say if you were going forced induction,which you say you're not, go all bore. If you are NA, go stroker. You will appreciate the extra torque of the stroker, plus you won't have to rev it as high to get power out of it.

As far as cost, the way I see it is,

All bore = Pistons and having the block sleeved.

Stroker = Pistons and new crank.

All the rest of the parts should be the same.

Bo White

iTrader: (59)

I have seen situations were an all bore engine made a car quicker on the street because of a more streetable torque curve because a lot of 383s are so explosive it blows the tires off on the street unless your on slicks. I personally like a bigger bore engine because it unshrouds the valves for better breathing and ultimately make an engine that makes more power per cubic inch but on the flip side of that coin the bigger stroke engine makes more torque per cubic inch- but sometimes too much for those late night red light challenges .

DavidNJ

The answer is you can meet you objectives either way.

Listing the points:

1. Unless you keep the stock bottom end except for pistons, you will spend the stroker money plus the sleeving money. At that point most people go 427 or 441 unless they have a class rule.

2. More bore will always make a faster car. It unshrouds the valves allowing them to flow more. And allows larger valves.

3. How much low end torque do you need? It is a street seat of the pants thing. Any under 7000rpm motor making in the mid 400s rwhp will probably feel pretty strong on the street.

Visceral

iTrader: (1)

OK y'all... I don't normally get to into these threads... Anyone should do the research and look at power curves and talk to vendors.

But there is one thing that's pretty clear to me now after two years with a sleeved motor(s).
Vendors DON'T have the dry sleeving process down yet. Ive never heard of ARE dropping a dry sleeve, but I wouldnt touch them with a 50ft pole after their heads cost me in the neighborhood of $7,000 to $13,000 (depending on how you look at "loss of use"). I know that was years ago, blah blah blah, but twice bitten, damn shy.
I now have a wet sleeve block. My prior block was a dry-sleeve block. I havent been in a position to even put the car through a break-in period yet, so I can't say that the system is perfect... but Im not having to wait for a sleeve to drop. I've had two prior sleeves drop.
Did the dropping sleeves cost me any money? The motor was warranteed, and the warrantee paid for the new engine, including install. What it didnt pay for was $2300 in car transportation between Texas and Oregon. I went into the situation understanding those were the terms, and I paid the money to transport the car willingly. But in the end, I don't think vendors are totally honest with the record that dry sleeves have. How can you heat cycle an engine and THEN make sure the sleeves are totally dropped in before decking the pair? Perhaps ARE has some cool way, but I doubt they have shared. Any other way and the cooling of the block plus the warming of the sleeve can easily distort the sleeve off the rim.

As far as all-bore vs. stroker... one should seriously consider what their end goals are. If you will be happy with 38X cubes, I would recommend sticking with a stroker. The torque wouldnt overwhelm my traction on the street, and my car isnt anything THAT special. (315 DRs, lots of aftermarket suspension, etc). Other parts of your system will in the end determine how much peak HP you make with either engine. There are many strokers making more peak HP than my 388 All Bore. I happen to have sh|tty heads that I refuse to replace. MOST people dont get the HP that you see here on LS1Tech anyways. You can get an All-bore and be excited if you make over 460 or you can get a stroker and be excited if you make over 460 rw peak. In either case, the 382 stroker is going to take a bigger cam slightly better than the 388, and its going to make more torque at idle-4000 rpm, which is where I have my fun 75% of the time.
If you suspect that 38X cubes isnt enough for you (as I do), then you may want to follow in what I have done. I had a 388 All bore done with stock rods and ARP rod bolts. I obviously had to pay for the block/sleeves, and a set of good slugs. What my intentions are is this: Find a good block/sleeve setup for an eventual 427. I love 427s. I will take a 427 ci motor over any other motor because of the history of that number. I dont care if a 434 would be cheaper and make more power... I want a 427 ci Camaro SS. I have enough time to wait for a block to work... but it hasnt been as cheap or as simple as usually advertised.

That's my 1 cents.

AINT SKEERED

iTrader: (2)

I would like to do an all bore with an offset ground crank to get a little of both. Would stock rods still work with the offset ground crank and just get good pistons and rod bolts?

Bo White

iTrader: (59)

Yes, as long as the big end of the rods are not too far out from spec they can be honed and reused with the ARPs.

Visceral

iTrader: (1)

Uhhh... wait a sec. You need different rods to run an offset ground crank. You are significantly shrinking the rod journal (off to the outside, to get more stroke). I dont know if a custom piston has the room either with a stock rod length. The wrist pin may begin to interfere with the oil rings effectiveness. So all in all... I can't believe you can run stock rods with an offset ground crank.

texada

iTrader: (3)

Whats your take on the wet sleeve blocks? I haven't heard of anyone having problems with them yet?

Bo White

iTrader: (59)

That is true about offsetting the crank larger than the available bearings will allow, say .100" offset will require new rods. Most go to a small journal 6.125 rod in that situation. My take on wet sleeved blocks is they are expensive and are overkill for most applications and S.A.M. has had a few leak and when they do leak they are harder to fix compaired to the dry sleeve.

NoGo

iTrader: (2)

I run an APE all-bore block 383. I wanted a more 'streetable' power band with the power adder that I am using.

Unfortunately, this is my second block. The first block from MTI dropped a sleeve. Despite the finger pointing that goes on with the sponsers and the machine shops there are still reputable shops out there sending out dropped sleeve blocks. It is just the nature of the beast.

If you don't mind making the gamble, I think that an all-bore block is the best route to go. However, if the idea of having to buy 2 blocks scares you, go with the stroker.

Bo White

iTrader: (59)

The dry sleeve thing will always be a debate with some so its whippin a dead horse on that one. I have and will always will dry sleeve blocks and the people that know me will understand why. I believe that all of the top shops that do this kind of work do good work and when you have good success from someone or someplace you need to stick with em. I have seen so many sleeved blocks that I have seen some out there that are bad that havent even had coolant ran through em yet. Once you get the technique of dry sleeving a block there is only one place to mess up and thats the clearences of the sleeve that may cause a leak but still will not cause it to drop because it has no place to go but up and then theres the gasket/head. At least the way I have it done anyway.

jrp

iTrader: (16)

wet sleeve done by steve demirjian . he's the co-devoloper, 'nuff said.

Bo White

iTrader: (59)

No doubt on that, since one of they guys that r&ded it also does em too- no brainer on who to do the wet sleeves.

texada

iTrader: (3)

You guys are making me scared to get a wet sleeve or dry sleeve block. Maybe, I'll wait until the Knock Sensor get cleared with the new LS2 Alumium block. All thing equeal what would be the power difference between a 402 and a 427?

Chris@AP-Engineering

iTrader: (-2)

If you want a dry sleeve block, we can do one for you. Our blocks don't drop sleeves, and don't leak water. There are enuff guy's on here that run them, and race them. If done properly the dry sleeve blocks are still a good way to go.
We have also used a lot of wet sleeve block from Steve and have never had a problem either.

GrannySShifting

iTrader: (10)

what would be the best way to go if you are spraying the car?

250 shot?

wet or dry?

tuff

iTrader: (15)

If your going to spray,a all bore short stroke will work very well.Stroke makes torque.When you spray you are making alot of torque so no need for the big stroke.Plus nitrous likes rpms so the short stroke will allow you to spin the motor to a high rpm.The only nitrous kit i would use would be a direct port.

Ragtop 99

iTrader: (7)

The debate is over. Go 402