Solid Lifter Oval Track Lobes for the Street?
Thread Starter
TECH Resident
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 881
Likes: 1
Solid Lifter Oval Track Lobes for the Street? Has anyone tried using oval track solid roller lobes on the street? These are less aggressive than drag lobes, however much more aggressive than street lobes. Some are available for lift restricted classes, which would be fine with the LS1, which seems to be done by .6" lift with even the most aggressive porting.
Ideally, you would get 20-40% more area under the curve without an increase in overlap. Hopefully, the cost would be just tappet noise, lifter adjustments, annual or so valve spring changes, and maybe a $4k cost for the valvetrain.
I was thinking of a setup with Morel solid lifters, TD or Jesel shafts with a high ratio, 1.55 springs with about 230-250 at 2" installed height and in the high 500# range over the nose with lift between .650-.675". That would be a Comp Cams 26089 or equivalent Isky or PSI. Valves would have to be +.200s...which I guess are custom parts.
ARE makes reasonably priced valve covers with valve spring oilers, which they say can be plumbed with a wet sump system.
So the questions:
Can you fit a 1.550 spring in the LS1, LS6, or AFR heads? The answer appears to be yes.
Would you make the valve fit the LS1 guide size or enlarge the guide?
Do you have contact info (web page, e-mail, or phone) for Morel? And who sells their lifters?
Can you/have you run an oval grind on the street?
And last but not least, do you think this would work?
Thanks,
David
Ideally, you would get 20-40% more area under the curve without an increase in overlap. Hopefully, the cost would be just tappet noise, lifter adjustments, annual or so valve spring changes, and maybe a $4k cost for the valvetrain.
I was thinking of a setup with Morel solid lifters, TD or Jesel shafts with a high ratio, 1.55 springs with about 230-250 at 2" installed height and in the high 500# range over the nose with lift between .650-.675". That would be a Comp Cams 26089 or equivalent Isky or PSI. Valves would have to be +.200s...which I guess are custom parts.
ARE makes reasonably priced valve covers with valve spring oilers, which they say can be plumbed with a wet sump system.
So the questions:
Can you fit a 1.550 spring in the LS1, LS6, or AFR heads? The answer appears to be yes.
Would you make the valve fit the LS1 guide size or enlarge the guide?
Do you have contact info (web page, e-mail, or phone) for Morel? And who sells their lifters?
Can you/have you run an oval grind on the street?
And last but not least, do you think this would work?
Thanks,
David
6600 rpm clutch dump of death Administrator
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,983
Likes: 13
From: Texas
Originally Posted by DavidNJ
Has anyone tried using oval track solid roller lobes on the street? These are less aggressive than drag lobes, however much more aggressive than street lobes. Some are available for lift restricted classes, which would be fine with the LS1, which seems to be done by .6" lift with even the most aggressive porting.
Ideally, you would get 20-40% more area under the curve without an increase in overlap. Hopefully, the cost would be just tappet noise, lifter adjustments, annual or so valve spring changes, and maybe a $4k cost for the valvetrain.
I was thinking of a setup with Morel solid lifters, TD or Jesel shafts with a high ratio, 1.55 springs with about 230-250 at 2" installed height and in the high 500# range over the nose with lift between .650-.675". That would be a Comp Cams 26089 or equivalent Isky or PSI. Valves would have to be +.200s...which I guess are custom parts.
ARE makes reasonably priced valve covers with valve spring oilers, which they say can be plumbed with a wet sump system.
So the questions:
Can you fit a 1.550 spring in the LS1, LS6, or AFR heads? The answer appears to be yes.
Would you make the valve fit the LS1 guide size or enlarge the guide?
Do you have contact info (web page, e-mail, or phone) for Morel? And who sells their lifters?
Can you/have you run an oval grind on the street?
And last but not least, do you think this would work?
Thanks,
David
Ideally, you would get 20-40% more area under the curve without an increase in overlap. Hopefully, the cost would be just tappet noise, lifter adjustments, annual or so valve spring changes, and maybe a $4k cost for the valvetrain.
I was thinking of a setup with Morel solid lifters, TD or Jesel shafts with a high ratio, 1.55 springs with about 230-250 at 2" installed height and in the high 500# range over the nose with lift between .650-.675". That would be a Comp Cams 26089 or equivalent Isky or PSI. Valves would have to be +.200s...which I guess are custom parts.
ARE makes reasonably priced valve covers with valve spring oilers, which they say can be plumbed with a wet sump system.
So the questions:
Can you fit a 1.550 spring in the LS1, LS6, or AFR heads? The answer appears to be yes.
Would you make the valve fit the LS1 guide size or enlarge the guide?
Do you have contact info (web page, e-mail, or phone) for Morel? And who sells their lifters?
Can you/have you run an oval grind on the street?
And last but not least, do you think this would work?
Thanks,
David
Anyhow, a solid lift lobe is different in several areas than a hyd. roller, much the same as a solid roller lobe is different from a hyd. roller. For instance, on a solid roller the initial ramp differs from hyd. since you have lash , and not preload.
I'm sure you could adapt a lobe, its just some changes might need to be made before hand to ensure proper operation.
Lets just say you can use a lot of differnet lobes a lot of different ways...
I'm slowly building a motor that will have a valvetrain similar to what your describing . I spoke with Brian T. @ TEA (great help) and he suggested that since I wanted to put in new guides anyway that we convert to 5/16 valves . The difference between 8mm and 5/16 is only a few thousanths but it makes it easier to get parts . I'm using Manley ICD retainers and instead of having a lock made for 8mm I'll just use an off the shelf 5/16 lock . Also 5/16 valves come in a variety of lengths . I want the solid roller for upper rpm stability and I would be more comfortable setting lash than hoping the preload is right and it won't crap out @ 7000+ . The less aggressive lobes would aid spring life as well .
Thread Starter
TECH Resident
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 881
Likes: 1
The Manley ICD's are probably a good idea if they are available for the spring. On a new purchase, they are only a few $$$ more and both reduce weight and allow some oil to land on the inner spring.
I was worried that the guide would be come to thin in some sections with the thicker stem.
The lobes I am thinking about shouldn't launch the valve. I use a similar grind (Comp Cams MA) on my late model with 1.8 rockers (.090 backspaced Crower stainless). Similar to an MH grind with 1.7 rockers, however with a slightly more aggressive ramp.
I will check with the cam vendor though.
Does the 1.55 spring also fit? Does a 1.650?
Thanks,
David
I was worried that the guide would be come to thin in some sections with the thicker stem.
The lobes I am thinking about shouldn't launch the valve. I use a similar grind (Comp Cams MA) on my late model with 1.8 rockers (.090 backspaced Crower stainless). Similar to an MH grind with 1.7 rockers, however with a slightly more aggressive ramp.
I will check with the cam vendor though.
Does the 1.55 spring also fit? Does a 1.650?
Thanks,
David
Last edited by DavidNJ; Jan 9, 2005 at 10:25 PM.
Why would you go to thicker valve stem ? The 5/16 setup is about 2 or 3 thosandths smaller and you won't gain the weight of a thicker stem . I also recommend this so you have fewer problems finding quality parts .
I can shift faster than you.
iTrader: (21)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,133
Likes: 0
From: Baton Rouge, LA
Just have the guides re-sized and the 5/16" valves will work great. LS1 has an 8mm stem from the factory. Stay away from the heavy 11/32" valves if at all possible. There are PLENTY of retainer/lock setups for the 5/16" valves.
Jason
Jason
Trending Topics
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
Topdon ONE vs. Artidiag 800 BT2: Which is the Diagnostic Tablet For You?
Pouria Savadkouei
Gas Monkey Built a 6-Wheel Ferrari Testarossa With a Corvette LT4 Engine
Verdad Gallardo
7 Most Reliable High-Performance Engines GM Has Ever Built
Verdad Gallardo
Amazing '71 Camaro Restomod Is Modern Muscle Car Under the Skin
Verdad Gallardo
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
TECH Resident
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 881
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by LOnSLO
Like Jason said. You will need complete new valve guides installed and honed if you're going to 5/16".
Or would I need to that done?
I can shift faster than you.
iTrader: (21)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,133
Likes: 0
From: Baton Rouge, LA
They will come with new guides, but will need to be re-sized for the 5/16" stem. This is generally done by installing a new liner in the guide and honing it to fit the new stem. Or, going with a completely new guide and honing to get proper stem to guide clearance.
A new valvejob is required when doing any guide work.
Jason
A new valvejob is required when doing any guide work.
Jason
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,839
Likes: 0
Hopefully, the cost would be just tappet noise, lifter adjustments, annual or so valve spring changes, and maybe a $4k cost for the valvetrain.
Thread Starter
TECH Resident
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 881
Likes: 1
Not really. Once you set fuel, emissions, noise, and torque curve goals, there is only so much you can do. This already is after headers, X-pipes, highflow cats, big intake, big TB, heads, and clutch upgrade.
Displacement is a also not an or. And ranges from expensive (383 stroke) to very expensive (427, 434, 441, or larger bore & stroke).
At that point you are looking at the cam and revs. One glance at virtually every LSx torque curve, and you can see it go south like a 355 SBC through a 2v 4412 or 4v 390 cfm. Getting air in the engine while meeting the other objectives requires overcoming the limitations of the 2-valve OHV configuration. Those limitations are primarily mass, flex, and curtain area.
Here we are tackling them head on, with hopefully a configuration that will provide an adequate valve, valve seat, and valve spring life.
David
Displacement is a also not an or. And ranges from expensive (383 stroke) to very expensive (427, 434, 441, or larger bore & stroke).
At that point you are looking at the cam and revs. One glance at virtually every LSx torque curve, and you can see it go south like a 355 SBC through a 2v 4412 or 4v 390 cfm. Getting air in the engine while meeting the other objectives requires overcoming the limitations of the 2-valve OHV configuration. Those limitations are primarily mass, flex, and curtain area.
Here we are tackling them head on, with hopefully a configuration that will provide an adequate valve, valve seat, and valve spring life.
David
