V8er

iTrader: (2)

I hate to break away from the "tech" side of this discussion since I think valuable info is being given, but can someone please cut through the fog of all the issues and tell a layman this: Regarless of cost (I assume there are no $1000 LS1 spring kits out there) what is the best spring/retainer/keeper kit I can buy for a 23X/.595 cam'd LSX engine? Are the $2XX kits really as good as the $600 Comp 921 kit? I don't care about the law of diminishing returns, in this situation I am willing to pay twice the price for a 10% better product.

Right now I am over the spring wars!

Thanks

jrp

iTrader: (16)

i had my PP golds independently tested and this is how they cam out:


seat: 143 lbs @ 1.800
open: 363 @ 1.200
coil bind: 1.060
Clearance: .140
spring rate: 367

my cam is a 238/236 .586/.589 112lsa (spec'd a little bigger on the cam doctor), lobes are in between an XE and XE-R.

how they'll hold up is anybody guess but since the introduction of the PP golds i've yet to here of any falures do to the spring itself. and these have been with x2 and x3 XE-R lobed cams. i havent seen any long term tests to see what the open and seat pressure are after say 10k miles though.

allthrottle&nobottle

Too bad this thread went OT...........as for the $$$.
Buying the 921s at $499+ IMHEO is like paying 5K over sticker on a C5 at one dealer when you can go 25 miles away and get the same car for 2K under..

I can't talk to the longevity of my PPGs yet, but I put 7K hard miles on my Pioneers and will be able to compare these in 7K miles. If I had any idea these springs were not up to snuff I would pay $499 to save my stroker motor to be sure but I did A LOT OF RESEARCH and calling to come to my pick.............check 3 times, build once. Good luck with a choice, I will testing the spring pressures of the ones I removed, I found the new PPGs I installed very near the same #s as stated above.

Cstraub

iTrader: (1)

Spring's: You want a Super Clean Chrome Silicon that has the seat pressure and open pressure to work with your cam.

Lock's: Machined locks are superior and are the best choice. The Super 7 was developed in the Cup arena to save engines from dropped valves and that would occur when a spring broke and the lock and retainer would seperate. Stamped steel stuff if probly good enough for mild builds with a max rpm of around 5800.

Retainers: Titanium is the lightest, but for most a steel retainer will work fine. Ti may or may not make a little more hp up stairs due to reduced weight, but lets face it these are hyd roller engines. You can't get reliable valvetrain performance due to the fact you are limited on spring pressure that can be used.

Seal: Personal preference Viton.

Seat's or shim: Aluminum head you MUST have a machined seat on HP mods. If not that spring will find's it's way through the water jacket.


Chris

Gunnar@Patriot

iTrader: (20)

Good post. We are happy to say our kits contain every component you mentioned included in them. At the end of the day what matters is that the right spring is used to go with the cam that has been choosen.

Cstraub

iTrader: (1)

We did ship Patriot several thousand valve locks in December and we have discussed other components for other projects.

Chris

V8er

iTrader: (2)

Great info! So, once again to help the laymen on LS1tech, can anyone answer these?

-U.S. Super Clean Chrome Silicon
Comp 921: Y or N
Patriot Gold: Y or N
PRC Gold: Y or N

-U.S. machined Super 7 locks
Comp 921: Y or N
Patriot Gold: Y or N
PRC Gold: Y or N

-U.S. titanium retainers
Comp 921: Y or N
Patriot Gold: Y or N
PRC Gold: Y or N

-Viton seals
Comp 921: Y or N
Patriot Gold: Y or N
PRC Gold: Y or N

-Seat pressure - claimed spec and consistent between all springs
Comp 921: Y or N
Patriot Gold: Y or N
PRC Gold: Y or N


If all three springs sets get three Ys then it seems we are dealing with price, unless there is yet more to this game that does meet the eye.

Gunnar@Patriot

iTrader: (20)

1. Y
2. Y
3. N (Titanium retainers are made out of country, specs checked by Patriot)
4. Y
5. Y

z-ya

iTrader: (1)

I got a set of heads used that came with patroits springs new.I checked all the springs
on my tester while checking out the heads.All the springs were within 3lbs at 1.800,
I was impressed,the locks aren't to shabby either.

Cstraub

iTrader: (1)

Let me add one thing about Super Clean. That process was developed by the Japanese in Kobi Japan. It has been licensed to a few other companies in the world but it is not made in the USA. Also the 3 large players in the spring market that supply alot of the aftermaket valve springs have plants in several countries including the USA. So the springs could be made off shore. Super clean Vanadium Steel is expensive material. It would not make sense to buy the best material and build sub standard parts. . .of course my industry sometimes does not make sense.

Chris

DAPSUPRSLO

iTrader: (14)

Where are the retainers made?

springpeddler

My only advice is that you consider if the supplier you buy form has the ability to test the springs b4 they sell them.
I know Crane and I believe Comp both have the ability to
do testing for performance and duribility on their own in-house Spintron test equipment. That would give me more confidence in the product.

Trevor @ Texas Speed & Perf.

iTrader: (3)

PRC Spring Kit:

1. Y
2. N
3. Y
4. Y
5. Y

EVERY COMPONENT of the PRC spring kit is made in the United States. There have been ZERO failures with the factory locks.

Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance

V8er

iTrader: (2)

Gunnar and Trevor,

thank you for coming to the table with the product information on your spring kits.

Please understand that I am not trying to poke sticks and stir up trouble for no reason. For the average LS1 owner (myself included) who is looking to upgrade his or her vehicle it can be very difficult to know who to trust, which parts are best and where to buy them. After 15 years of upgrading my own cars I have seen countless situations where a product with a big name, backed by a large marketing budget was actually inferior to the grass-roots type, enthusiast produced part. Perhpas this valve spring kit war is a similar situation? On the other hand I have also purchased parts that were truely a "you get what you pay for" situation.

If only there was a way for these mfg's to prove who's spring kits are best. It seems like the Comp 921s are well proven by LG and other race type guys but if I am not mistaken they have also been on the market longer than the PP and PRC product. I would be that there are more 921s going up and down in heads around the country than any other LS1 dual spring kit and I don't think there have been many (any?) reported failures?

GrannySShifting

iTrader: (10)

WHo makes a good machined stock style lock to accurately fit the PRC and other retainers such as Comp 918s?

DavidNJ

It is interesting to define "valve spring failure". Breaking is certainly a failure. However loosing stiffness and causing valve float is also a failure. And inconsistent pressures between springs is not a failure, but a QC issue.

In street use, I don't think many people with replacement springs check the pressure (I do it on my race car every 3-4 weekends). And I think many don't check the pressures when they install them.

How do these various springs compare? The expensive springs ($250-600 set for the spring) all lose pressure if you run them hard (lots of lift, aggressive ramp, lots of revs). However they come with very accurate matched spring pressures right out of the box (what the spec says is what you get). And the loss of pressure comes with extreme use.

David

xxboomer408xx

dam is that on a stock block dapsuprslo?

DAPSUPRSLO

iTrader: (14)

Stock 01 shorblock with .090" flycut pistons. Firing up this morning

Ed Blown Vert

iTrader: (2)

Well I finally got my heads, so time to order a spring kit. My current set on my AS head are Dual-Comps. And I would like to stick with them.
But they are expensive. If it wasn't for the price, would you buy them or just go with Patriot's?

Bo White

iTrader: (59)

Since you already have the Comp kit just order in replacement springs and reuse the rest.