1 Stout Z

iTrader: (1)

Just as the title says, I am probably going to get a G5X3 cam, possibly a F13, and definatly getting the AFR's 205's milled for 11:1. The only thing that is stopping me from ordering is I have to find out if I will have any problem with the stock pistons and the notching, how much will I have to notch and will it cause any problems? What cc will the heads have to be to hit 11:1 and with what size head gasket. I hit the track everytime I can and drive it everyday if that will help you out any at all.

I am in the Air Force currently serving in Japan so I will have to have someone do the work for me so I was just asking these questions so I can tell my father who has my car at his house what to do when he takes it somewhere to have the work done. I would have no problem with it if I was back home, I could do it myself but I don't have that luxury.

1. Will the G5X3 work with stock pistons and notching with the AFR's 11:1 or will it create hot spots on the pistons?
2. Can this combo work safely on a daily driver car?
3. I am also going to be adding true duals dumped before axle and Fast 90 intake and NW 90tb to it and a tune, how much will this gain me in E.T. and mph over my currently untuned setup below?
4. For fun, hp estimates?

Or should I just stay with my cam and put the heads on with 11:1 and no notching?



Thanks in advance for the help
Jess

PREDATOR-Z

Ideally should see low 11's.
Read this, tony had a lot of feedback.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...light=afr+mill

1 Stout Z

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the link, good info. So far from what I got out of it, the heads need to be milled to 59cc and have a .040 head gasket to get a 11:1. And to definatly notch the pistons for the G5X3 cam correct?

What about going with a 112LSA on the G5X3? I want to keep the mean sound that I have now with the C1 cam and I have heard 114LSA's and they are more docile.

How much will I pick up going to the G5X3 and the AFR's over keeping my C1 cam and having 11:1 comp on both?

Just trying to find out whether it would be worth the extra money and effort to change the cam and have to notch the pistons over keeping my cam and just bumping up the comp. ratio.

PREDATOR-Z

properly quenched, tuned, I would say a C1 should reach 430>435rwhp at 11.1:1 CR
G5x3 has seen realistic #'s in the 455+, so by deduction I would say 20>25 more rwhp with the G5X3 (but a lot more expensive)
IMO, get the heads and mill them (it takes .006 mill for every cc) so from 66cc to 59 cc that would be [5x.006=.030 mill]
That is well within the good mill range in order not to affect flow too much.
As far as the gasket, I wouldn't run a quench less than .035 for the street. So taking the average .007 out of hole piston, I would say a .042 gasket (.040,.042,.041 and .045) gaskets available I would take the .045 myself).

PS: In case you wonder which gaskets are .042
Mr gasket part# 5713g left side,5714g right side .042 compressed thickness
3.90 bore. It's in their ultralseal line and retails for under $20 a gasket.

1 Stout Z

iTrader: (1)

Your info and response is greatly appreciated. Just what I wanted to know.

Mirek

A .030 mill will net you a 61cc chamber, exactly what you want for the C1 for slightly above 11:1 w/ a .045 gasket. In my mind, this is the ideal set up for MAX torque w/ the AFR's & symetrical cam. After all the research I did and questions I asked this is my combo. Plus you do not have to flycut. But do not copy my combo because I think its the best. Look around alot of people think their own is ideal after their research.
For the X3, plan on flycutting and milling to 59cc to get 11:1 with the required flycut. There are diminishing returns w/ flow with that much of a mill. Plus now you have cut pistons, but that is a another issue, BTW you have a 3.2 gear, where do you want your HP/TQ/RPM to come in at at?
Your cam could get you in 10's if you build around it, why go bigger?
Do a search under Tony Mamo. Good luck !

AINT SKEERED

iTrader: (2)

I had the hammer cam and now have the fm13 cam. I wanted to change the heads and from what I have seen, the c1 would do great with the afr heads. It was a stout cam in my car and have lots of respect for that little cam.
Do the heads and have fun with the new power of the afr heads and when you get bored with that, then try the bigger cam . With the 3500 stall you have , the c1 will be great. I would want bigger for the g5x3. My f13 would still be good with a 3500 though.

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Guys...

Get me up to speed quickly on the exact specs of the F13 and the C1 cam....

I would like to kick in my .02 on which might work better.

Thanks,
Tony

(Need duration @ .050, lift, and LSA #'s)

AnthonyR

iTrader: (3)

C1 222/222 566/566 112
F13 230/232 595/585 112/114 (can be ordered either way)

Squintz Palladoris

iTrader: (1)

I am currently running the X3 on a 114. It is NOT a docile idle. It sounds nice.
The 112 will sound better and if you are planning on notching the pistons would be the better choice of the 2.

Brad

Race Car Driver

milling to 11:1 = .024"

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

I'm liking the F13 cam for making big numbers.

If you didnt mind the extra lope I would get the 112 LSA and put it 2 ahead (110 ICL)....that would make good torque and HP

For a slightly milder idle (a tad more conservative) I would go with the 114 grind and also put it 2 ahead (112 ICL)....it wouldn't come on as hard as the 112 speced above but the HP would probably be very similar and it would easily spin to 7200 with a very flat upper RPM charge.

Either choice above would make significantly more power than the 222 grind.

Good luck...
Tony M.

PS By the way, the F13 cam has significantly less overlap than the Gx3 cam and would definately be more "streetable" or docile in any configuration. There is nothing wrong with the X3...Its just larger which works for some people and doesn't work for others.

BoneSS

iTrader: (9)

Is than any decent sized cam that could be run w/ the 205's milled to 59 cc w/o flycutting on a 114? I was wanting to run the G5X3, but the flycutting issue came up--something I really do not want to do.

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

I copied and pasted this from another thread I responded to...I think it covers the dilema you are dealing with.


COMBINATION!!....most important

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guys...

Been busy or I would have hopped on here sooner to comment on something I see all too often.

You cant "have your cake and eat it to"....at least most of the time and this situation certainly qualifies as one of them.

Let me elaborate....Installing a cam as large as a GX3 (no matter what LSA) and trying to get away without notching pistons for valve clearance is penney wise and dollar foolish. You MIGHT get away with it with un-milled AFR's out of the box at 66 cc's, but you will still have minimal clearance (which could be a problem if RPM's get away from you in the water box or perhaps a missed shift)....this is not a "desirable" situation. What's even worse is that a stock 66cc head and an X3 cam is NOT a good combination. You could make close to the SAME or perhaps slightly more peak power with a smaller 224 stick because you would have the room to hike the CR up to 11-11.25 to 1, not to mention have much more torque and HP down low from the smaller cam and the higher compression. The average power and torque would simply be alot higher and it would be a much more street friendly set-up. I'm not advocating for everyone to go with a smaller camshaft, what I'm saying is if your taking the plunge with a fairly aggressive cam grind (230 + duration), you need to bump the CR to 11 to 1 minimum, and notch the pistons for adequate valve clearance so your not on the ragged edge (to help avoid tagging a valve in an unforseen situation).

Just because you MIGHT be able to squeeze an X3 cam in your motor with an un-milled AFR doesn't necessarily mean it's the smart thing to do....

Combination, combination, combination....can't drive this home enough. I've seen many milder set-ups out gun a more "radical" one because more thought and time went into the other.

I've been meaning to touch bases on this previously and it is not aimed directly at the "creator" of this thread....in fact I'm glad he posted this because it's a topic I've been meaning to hit on for awhile now. Keep it mild or build it radical, but build it "RIGHT" without trying to cut any corners. You will be much happier in the long run with the increased performance and there is a good chance you might have avoided a potential disaster in the future from valve's clipping pistons or worse.

Tony M.

No Juice

iTrader: (11)

Tony,
With the 224/228 cam that you guys have shown to perform well, do the pistons need to be notched?
I've always liked this size of a cam but want to mill the heads to 11:1 or more without fly cutting.

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

No flycutting necessary with a 61 or 62 cc chamber, .040 gasket, and our 224/228 cam installed straight up (advance is "pre-ground" in the cam already). There's not a LOT of P to V, but there is enough (about .080/.100).

No Juice

iTrader: (11)

Well this sounds good to me.
So milled .030 to 61cc and with a .040 gasket gives about 11:1 correct? But isn't the quench at .033 for that gasket? I thought you want it no less than .035?

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

62 cc / .040 gasket / .007 out of hole = 11.18 to 1 CR

Factory shortblocks have tight piston to wall and minimal rock. You can get away with much tighter quench than standard 23' SBC's .

You should be OK with .030 or greater.

Race Car Driver

As I have said here many times, when in doubt, ask a professional such as Tony, rather than take poll on a web site.

BoneSS

iTrader: (9)

Thanks Tony, search button owns me once again! That answered alot though.