Highest compression on pump gas?
Thread Starter
9 Second Club
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From: Nashville, TN
So, Would it be possible to run 11:1 and stay pump gas as long as i don't spray? Then, if i did decide to spray, switch over to race gas? Is this a reasonable option?
TECH Resident
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 845
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From: K-W, Ontario
You can pull timing if you spray. The fuel curve must also be adjusted.
The race gas is not always the best solution. Sometimes it may slow you down.
What you need to try is small shots of nitrous and increase the metering
of fuel and pull a good amount of timing at first. Add timing slightly each
time until the car slows down (or dyno power drops).
Also monitor engine temp, exhaust temp (EGT if you can), and knock counts
as you add timing.
The race gas is not always the best solution. Sometimes it may slow you down.
What you need to try is small shots of nitrous and increase the metering
of fuel and pull a good amount of timing at first. Add timing slightly each
time until the car slows down (or dyno power drops).
Also monitor engine temp, exhaust temp (EGT if you can), and knock counts
as you add timing.
i don't know your timing events of your cam but it will probably bleed off more cylinder pressure than a smaller cam.with a tune 11:5 cr shouldn't be a problem,heck i,ve got a carbed 406 with 11.5,it's all in the tune.at the dyno retard 4-6 *and richen it up to 12:0 afr on the n2o.where are you having your car tuned,i'll be needing another one in a few months?
Thread Starter
9 Second Club
iTrader: (31)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,175
Likes: 2
From: Nashville, TN
I will probably be taking the trip to Gomer in Trussvile, Al. He is on the board here, and as far as i know, the closest respecatable Ls1 tuner since TEA packed up and moved away
Originally Posted by Adrenaline_Z
`The strongest engines have less compression ratio, less spark advance, and more nitrous.
Lemme edit it: The strongest engines have MORE compression ratio, less spark advance, and more nitrous
TECH Resident
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 845
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From: K-W, Ontario
Read the articles.
Don`t forget, we`re talking about pump gas.
Again, I will quote NOS tech for nitrous applications:
However, when higher compression or higher horsepower levels are used, a racing fuel of 100 octane, or more, must be used.
I`ve listed URL`s of credible source that state that compression MUST be
lowered on pump gas nitrous motors to be effective.
This going in hand with everything I`ve learned about charge filling over the
last 17 years.
For anyone to doubt this, is losing my respect. I have a line in my signature for
people like that.
Prove me wrong with a credible link, or blue prints of your nitrous fed high
compression N20 motor.
Otherwise, it`s all bench racing bro.
Don`t forget, we`re talking about pump gas.
Again, I will quote NOS tech for nitrous applications:
However, when higher compression or higher horsepower levels are used, a racing fuel of 100 octane, or more, must be used.
I`ve listed URL`s of credible source that state that compression MUST be
lowered on pump gas nitrous motors to be effective.
This going in hand with everything I`ve learned about charge filling over the
last 17 years.
For anyone to doubt this, is losing my respect. I have a line in my signature for
people like that.
Prove me wrong with a credible link, or blue prints of your nitrous fed high
compression N20 motor.
Otherwise, it`s all bench racing bro.
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Verdad Gallardo Can't feed you blue-prints because its not my motor and the specs don't get leaked. It is on race-gas, however the compression level is WAY high. Something way above the magnitude we're talking with Tim's motor.
I don't have a line in my signature because usually I don't have to argue with people over what I've seen.
I don't have a line in my signature because usually I don't have to argue with people over what I've seen.
TECH Resident
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 845
Likes: 0
From: K-W, Ontario
Originally Posted by CamTom12
Can't feed you blue-prints because its not my motor and the specs don't get leaked. It is on race-gas, however the compression level is WAY high. Something way above the magnitude we're talking with Tim's motor.
I don't have a line in my signature because usually I don't have to argue with people over what I've seen.
I don't have a line in my signature because usually I don't have to argue with people over what I've seen.
Some of you are totally missing the point.
He wants to use PUMP GAS
Pump gas, not RACING GAS.
Can we put this to rest now?
TECH Resident
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 845
Likes: 0
From: K-W, Ontario
I read it twice now, and I saw that it`s WAY high on compression.
Now you`re throwing in another set of criteria:
- Cam specs (mainly IVC)
- Chamber size
- Quench height (Compression height)
- Fuel octane, and fuel type
Back to the topic:
On a street and strip engine such as Tim`s using pump gas 93 octane,
a fairly aggressive camshaft (let`s say CC306 for a benchmark) and
100 shot of nitrous, are you telling me going over 11:1 compression is
a good thing?
Now you`re throwing in another set of criteria:
- Cam specs (mainly IVC)
- Chamber size
- Quench height (Compression height)
- Fuel octane, and fuel type
Back to the topic:
On a street and strip engine such as Tim`s using pump gas 93 octane,
a fairly aggressive camshaft (let`s say CC306 for a benchmark) and
100 shot of nitrous, are you telling me going over 11:1 compression is
a good thing?
We're talking a street/strip LS1.
A very aggressive cam (can't give the specs publicly. It's big, though.)
tight squish (.030-.035)
93 octane, (knowing Tim I'm sure he'll dump some 103 in for the track, but we're not supposed to figure for that. That's his safety net)
Chamber size is what we're trying to figure for.
A very aggressive cam (can't give the specs publicly. It's big, though.)
tight squish (.030-.035)
93 octane, (knowing Tim I'm sure he'll dump some 103 in for the track, but we're not supposed to figure for that. That's his safety net)
Chamber size is what we're trying to figure for.
TECH Resident
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 845
Likes: 0
From: K-W, Ontario
Look, no offense, but if you`re not going to reveal cam specs to debate an issue, then drop it.
Nobody has posted anything worth believing.
As for Tim`s motor, or any street / strip entry using a good shot of nitrous
on 93 octane, raising compressoin is counter productive.
It goes against all technique for high cylinder filling (VE).
ANy engine builder worth his lunch bag will tell you this.
I encourage anyone here to call up an engine tuning shop / pro nitrous engine builder and quote my posts.
Then we can separate the men from the boys.
Nobody has posted anything worth believing.
As for Tim`s motor, or any street / strip entry using a good shot of nitrous
on 93 octane, raising compressoin is counter productive.
It goes against all technique for high cylinder filling (VE).
ANy engine builder worth his lunch bag will tell you this.
I encourage anyone here to call up an engine tuning shop / pro nitrous engine builder and quote my posts.
Then we can separate the men from the boys.
Actually, we called the cam designer (also an engine builder) and got his input. You'd be surprised.
He said to run it drastically higher than 11.1
EDIT: no offense taken, by the way
He said to run it drastically higher than 11.1
EDIT: no offense taken, by the way
TECH Resident
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 845
Likes: 0
From: K-W, Ontario
I`m in for a surprise. Post his number, I`ll call him tomorrow and talk.
I`ll post two of my sources:
Bob Schilling
Schilling Performance
519-622-5890
Relation: Ex - Boss
You can see the name of his shop on the side of the car as well.
Car:
Top Sportsman
http://gmthunder.com/tech/bobburnout.jpg
http://gmthunder.com/tech/bobZ28hoist.jpg
http://gmthunder.com/tech/bobchute.jpg
http://gmthunder.com/tech/bob4link.jpg
Jon and Jim Salemi at G-Force Race cars
http://www.gforceracecars.com/home.htm
(716) 693-8533
Build Pro Mod, N/A, blown and nitrous engines
My name is Tino, you can call me as well
519-570-2580
I`ll post two of my sources:
Bob Schilling
Schilling Performance
519-622-5890
Relation: Ex - Boss
You can see the name of his shop on the side of the car as well.
Car:
Top Sportsman
http://gmthunder.com/tech/bobburnout.jpg
http://gmthunder.com/tech/bobZ28hoist.jpg
http://gmthunder.com/tech/bobchute.jpg
http://gmthunder.com/tech/bob4link.jpg
Jon and Jim Salemi at G-Force Race cars
http://www.gforceracecars.com/home.htm
(716) 693-8533
Build Pro Mod, N/A, blown and nitrous engines
My name is Tino, you can call me as well
519-570-2580
Originally Posted by tim99ws6
I will probably be taking the trip to Gomer in Trussvile, Al. He is on the board here, and as far as i know, the closest respecatable Ls1 tuner since TEA packed up and moved away
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,620
Likes: 17
From: BFE
Adrenaline,
Quit acting like you know it all Bro. He said (93 pump gas) and I gave him my answer.
N2O use is very tune dependent, so of course you have to reduce timing and add fuel accordingly while monitoring with data logger.
Do you even have an LS1?
Juicers all know that the higher CR the more power. Of course higher CR demands higher Octane.Quench plays a big role to.
Here I have 98 Octane premium and I can shoot 200 dry on stock motor without even pulling timing. Yes 28.8* with a 12.6 AFR and I could lean it a bit.
CR 10.4x
So please try to relax, trade info, learn a bit but avoid bashing, and acting like you are King of all knowledge.
Some BBC at the track here are running 14:1 and shooting 400 rwhp shot DP.
Quit acting like you know it all Bro. He said (93 pump gas) and I gave him my answer.
N2O use is very tune dependent, so of course you have to reduce timing and add fuel accordingly while monitoring with data logger.
Do you even have an LS1?
Juicers all know that the higher CR the more power. Of course higher CR demands higher Octane.Quench plays a big role to.
Here I have 98 Octane premium and I can shoot 200 dry on stock motor without even pulling timing. Yes 28.8* with a 12.6 AFR and I could lean it a bit.
CR 10.4x
So please try to relax, trade info, learn a bit but avoid bashing, and acting like you are King of all knowledge.
Some BBC at the track here are running 14:1 and shooting 400 rwhp shot DP.
