Binding head bolt holes.
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From: Washington Township, NJ
Binding head bolt holes. This is weird, at least for me. I did a h/c, etc. in October, and all was well. Over the winter I bought an LSX 90 manifold and NW throttle body and decided to pull my heads, have them milled another .020" (they were .010" originally -AFR 205's), and redegree my cam. When I was pulling the heads, the three top front long bolts on the pass. side were binding when I removed them. Not bad, but they were squealing when I was twisting them out. I didn't have to put undue torque on them they kind of 'ratcheted' out in one area and in others made a little squealing noise. When I blew the holes out I got dust, not water. When I ran a fluted bolt in to clean them it went in real tight, but not tighter than I could turn with my hand and some yanking around, then another twist, tight, then yank, etc. After I ran the bolt in and out a few times it got looser and a small amount of white, or gray, powder came out when I blew out the hole. It was dry. Also, there were a few, not a lot but just a few very small flakes of metal. They cleaned up fine. I can run a bolt in and out all the way down and out now and all is fine, but they still bind slightly and squeak a little. I used GM bolts. And plan on using GM bolts to remount the heads.
I was wondering if I should 'wet' the hole with some anti-sieze and clean it before I put the heads back on. Anyone know what is happening here? They aren't stripped. Should I 'wet' them? Any experience would be helpful.
I was wondering if I should 'wet' the hole with some anti-sieze and clean it before I put the heads back on. Anyone know what is happening here? They aren't stripped. Should I 'wet' them? Any experience would be helpful.
Roger,
When I was using the GM bolts (using ARP studs now) they always seemed to "stick" at times and give off some of that gray dust. However, it never seemed to affect the torque down procedure when I put new ones back on (meaning, the heads clamped down tight). IMHO, I wouldn't worry about it and not use the anti-seize.
By the way, I never got rid of the knocking sound inside my engine. I think some of the shavings from my old camshaft got into the bearings. I'm getting an 8000 mile, Z06 shortblock installed by ECS this week with the AFR H/C I installed earlier (thanks for your help with that). I can't wait to get it back!
Tony
When I was using the GM bolts (using ARP studs now) they always seemed to "stick" at times and give off some of that gray dust. However, it never seemed to affect the torque down procedure when I put new ones back on (meaning, the heads clamped down tight). IMHO, I wouldn't worry about it and not use the anti-seize.
By the way, I never got rid of the knocking sound inside my engine. I think some of the shavings from my old camshaft got into the bearings. I'm getting an 8000 mile, Z06 shortblock installed by ECS this week with the AFR H/C I installed earlier (thanks for your help with that). I can't wait to get it back!
Tony
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From: Washington Township, NJ
Originally Posted by Byter
Roger,
When I was using the GM bolts (using ARP studs now) they always seemed to "stick" at times and give off some of that gray dust. However, it never seemed to affect the torque down procedure when I put new ones back on (meaning, the heads clamped down tight). IMHO, I wouldn't worry about it and not use the anti-seize.
By the way, I never got rid of the knocking sound inside my engine. I think some of the shavings from my old camshaft got into the bearings. I'm getting an 8000 mile, Z06 shortblock installed by ECS this week with the AFR H/C I installed earlier (thanks for your help with that). I can't wait to get it back!
Tony
When I was using the GM bolts (using ARP studs now) they always seemed to "stick" at times and give off some of that gray dust. However, it never seemed to affect the torque down procedure when I put new ones back on (meaning, the heads clamped down tight). IMHO, I wouldn't worry about it and not use the anti-seize.
By the way, I never got rid of the knocking sound inside my engine. I think some of the shavings from my old camshaft got into the bearings. I'm getting an 8000 mile, Z06 shortblock installed by ECS this week with the AFR H/C I installed earlier (thanks for your help with that). I can't wait to get it back!
Tony
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From: Hatboro PA
Any time you put a bolt in a hole you must use some kind of lubercant on the threads and under the head or washer.It is very importain with bolts going in too alumnium.A bolt that has no lube on the threads will give a false TQ reading.
mike
mike
Originally Posted by ROGERSPERF.
Any time you put a bolt in a hole you must use some kind of lubercant on the threads and under the head or washer.It is very importain with bolts going in too alumnium.A bolt that has no lube on the threads will give a false TQ reading.
mike
mike
when doin ur first head swap u may have missed some coolant in them holes and traped it in there. Im thinkin u stretched the threads in the block a little, causing ur problem. Just be sure u get that bolt to go in nice and smooth and thoroughly clean that hole bf installing, you shouldnt need to wet it, maybe a tiny bit of antiseize to help the install but thats it. Good luck
from GM Service Information 2000, 2002 Camaro LS1 - doesnt say anywhere in the service procedure about using lub or anti-seize
Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.
Tighten the M11 cylinder head bolts (1-10) a first pass in sequence to 30 N·m (22 lb ft).
Tighten the M11 cylinder head bolts (1-10) a second pass in sequence to 90 degrees using the J 36660-A .
Tighten the M11 cylinder head bolts (1-8) to 90 degrees and the M11 cylinder head bolts (9 and 10) to 50 degrees a final pass in sequence using J 36660-A .
Tighten the M8 cylinder head bolts (11-15) to 30 N·m (22 lb ft). Begin with the center bolt (11) and alternating side-to-side, work outward tightening all of the bolts.
Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.
Tighten the M11 cylinder head bolts (1-10) a first pass in sequence to 30 N·m (22 lb ft).
Tighten the M11 cylinder head bolts (1-10) a second pass in sequence to 90 degrees using the J 36660-A .
Tighten the M11 cylinder head bolts (1-8) to 90 degrees and the M11 cylinder head bolts (9 and 10) to 50 degrees a final pass in sequence using J 36660-A .
Tighten the M8 cylinder head bolts (11-15) to 30 N·m (22 lb ft). Begin with the center bolt (11) and alternating side-to-side, work outward tightening all of the bolts.
Last edited by busta9876; Apr 13, 2005 at 07:17 PM.
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On The Tree
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From: Hatboro PA
I,am sorry but i disagree with GM friction is the enemy of TQ.When you TQ a fastner if you have no lube you you are gulling to metals togeather aspecialy when you have 2 diffrent metals.That sqeak you heard was you removing metal as the bolt was turned and what you found out after was aluminum.
If you need more info go to ARP web site that will explane it better.
mike
If you need more info go to ARP web site that will explane it better.
mike
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Hmmm. This is getting interesting. FWIW, the stock GM bolts have a red paint-like substance on the threads. I believe it is thread lock and may also give a bit of lube when tightening. As Busta stated there is a small torque set to get the bolts started and it's torque to yeild after that. I do agree with ROGERSPERF (great tag) in that lubing is a vital part of torqueing. I just don't want to bind up on a bolt 9/10ths of the way in and snap it. That would ruin my day.
Originally Posted by ArKay99
This is weird, at least for me. I did a h/c, etc. in October, and all was well. Over the winter I bought an LSX 90 manifold and NW throttle body and decided to pull my heads, have them milled another .020" (they were .010" originally -AFR 205's), and redegree my cam. When I was pulling the heads, the three top front long bolts on the pass. side were binding when I removed them. Not bad, but they were squealing when I was twisting them out. I didn't have to put undue torque on them they kind of 'ratcheted' out in one area and in others made a little squealing noise. When I blew the holes out I got dust, not water. When I ran a fluted bolt in to clean them it went in real tight, but not tighter than I could turn with my hand and some yanking around, then another twist, tight, then yank, etc. After I ran the bolt in and out a few times it got looser and a small amount of white, or gray, powder came out when I blew out the hole. It was dry. Also, there were a few, not a lot but just a few very small flakes of metal. They cleaned up fine. I can run a bolt in and out all the way down and out now and all is fine, but they still bind slightly and squeak a little. I used GM bolts. And plan on using GM bolts to remount the heads.
I was wondering if I should 'wet' the hole with some anti-sieze and clean it before I put the heads back on. Anyone know what is happening here? They aren't stripped. Should I 'wet' them? Any experience would be helpful.
I was wondering if I should 'wet' the hole with some anti-sieze and clean it before I put the heads back on. Anyone know what is happening here? They aren't stripped. Should I 'wet' them? Any experience would be helpful.
Bottom line is they feel losts better with the lube and if you start early enough (before you buy too many sets of GMs) they are fairly cheap.
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From: Hatboro PA
The TQ to yeald fastner works like a spring that is why most of the time you can,t use an air gun on them you first have to use a long wratchet once they break lose you can use your air gun.With out looking at the GM bolts the red sealer or what ever it is on there will work like a lube.30 lbs TQ will be adcheaved faster if no lube is used then if lube was used so you are accually under Torking the bolt because of the friction.
Ps i spent to much time with the hot rod books in spelling class so bear with me.
Ps i spent to much time with the hot rod books in spelling class so bear with me.
my ORININAL 98 bolts did the same to me when i removed them about a month and a half ago. i made the tap out of an old bolt and ran it into the hole like 20 times each LOL i got alot of the white powder stuff as well. it all blew out, along with the water, and the new OEM bolts went in perfect. well if they had threaded themselves and torqued themselves down, they woulda went perfect 
that IS loctite on the new factory GM bolts, and it DOES lubricate on installation.
i wish i had used the ARP head studs/bolts now, but its too late, oh well. you live, you learn.
that IS loctite on the new factory GM bolts, and it DOES lubricate on installation.
i wish i had used the ARP head studs/bolts now, but its too late, oh well. you live, you learn.
