nuzee

iTrader: (2)

If I had ego problems, I would've made a reply like this to you:
But I didn't, did I? Your feeble attempts at trying to find one of my buttons to push haven't worked yet and, in an odd way, I find it entertaining.

O2Reaper wants to know the specs of the Crane cam that you claim to be aggressive. So do I. You did say:
and if you forgot, you said:
So, its been a few days...... where is it?

blkZ28spt

lol, that's a good point. Xtrooper is making comments about it and hasn't produced ANY facts yet.

nuzee

iTrader: (2)

Crane should be open for tech calls on Monday. It would be opportune for him to post the full cam specs before Monday to demonstrate that he did know what they were before making that demeaning post. I say he will come through and post before Monday. What say you?

02Reaper

iTrader: (2)

If you are talking about xtrooper, it appears that he has a crane cam by the looks of his signature. Why don't he just grab the cam card and type it up?

PREDATOR-Z

Yeap, why not give us .006 advertised lifts so we can see how "agressive " the .050 and .006 variance is?

XTrooper

And through what flawed reasoning did you come to that incorrect conclusion?

FYI, it's a custom ground Cam Motion cam. Providing you the cam specs would be pointless in this discussion.

Sport Side

iTrader: (6)

Here are some Crane lobes. They use .004'' as advertised tho.

02Reaper

iTrader: (2)

I stand corrected. I see on your webpage now. Anyone care to give us specs on the lobes at .006 so we can compare?

XTrooper

I'm not sure what you mean by "advertised lifts" as I've never heard that term before, but if you're interested in the Crane advertised versus .050" duration numbers, they're available for all by following the link below and via SportSide 5.3's helpful chart. BTW, this was my very first suggestion in this thread when I said, "Compare a new Crane cam's .050" duration numbers to its advertised duration numbers and get back to us" to which blkZ28spt replied, "I didn't realize that it had harsh lobes. I guess it does" so I'm not sure even he knows what he believes. If I were paying for his education, I'd demand a refund.

02Reaper: If you can understand what you're looking at, you'll find that they prove you wrong.

For "The Bobbsey Twins," nuzee and blkZ28spt: You can educate yourselves by checking the same page. You'll see that, again as I already stated, the Crane cams may not be the "most aggressive," but they are far from lazy. Regarding calling Crane, you fellas can do your own homework. After all, I'm not the one that made false claims concerning the ramp rates of Crane cams.

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=newPr...a2b639a20717be

XTrooper

Not a problem.

The difficulty with your suggestion is brought up by SportSide 5.3. Crane has always used .004" for their advertised numbers so it's very hard to make direct comparisons between theirs and say Comp cams which use .006" advertised numbers. This is why the .050" numbers exist for comparison purposes.

blkZ28spt

I keep checking up on this thread for when you make cheap BS comments like this.

The original poster called the company and was told the lobes were soft. You don't think that's enough to go on? And I was only answering a soft vs hard lob question, I never said they had soft lobes. Seriously, what's your problem?

BTW: You implied that you knew the cam's .050" duration andvadvertised duration numbers. We have yet to see you post anything about it though.........

PREDATOR-Z

Comparing 2 cams at .050 won't tell you squat relative to ramp rates. However (and this is just speculation), I doubt that Crane lobes are as agressive (sharp rate) just for the fact that they are variable lift lobes.

XTrooper

1. The word "soft" was never used by the Crane tech. That's your word.

2. The duration numbers can be seen by simply following the link I provided in my post previous to this one. Did you really have to ask about them again? Unless you need to be spoon-fed, the link should be sufficient.

XTrooper

I agree and no one said they would. However, if you examine the difference between a cam's .050" duration and its advertised duration, this will show you how fast or slow a cam's ramp rates are.

02Reaper

iTrader: (2)

Its hard to measure the ramp rate and compare them when the other cam companys list theirs at .006 and crane starts theirs at .004. If we had cranes numbers at .006 then we would be able to give a true comparison.

XTrooper

I agree 100%. Just keep in mind when making your comparisons that if you compare two identical cams where one has its advertised duration numbers based on the .004" point and the other uses the .006" point, the latter will appear to be more aggressive. Also, if you compare two cams under the same circumstances and they appear equal or nearly so, the .004" point cam would, in fact, be the more aggressive of the two.

It's obvious that Crane doesn't use the .004" numbers as some kind of marketing trick because it actually makes their cams look less aggressive than they really are when compared to cams using the .006" numbers. It's simply a case where they've been using .004" as their point of reference since "Day 1" and I doubt they're going to change things now after decades of doing it this way.

nuzee

iTrader: (2)

Xtrooper
Let's put all of the previous posts aside and get down to topic. I wanted to see the supporting information that makes you claim Crane cams to be aggressive. I had wondered if Crane had something going on above .050" lift. I was thinking maybe the duration measurements between 0.050 to 0.20" might indicate what's going on. The info presented so far cannot confirm or dispell my suspicions.

So based on Harvey Crane's lobe intensity formula where:
lobe intensity=advertised duration-duration at 0.050

Crane's lobe intensity=62
CompCam's XE=53
CompCam's XER=49

Anyone know what the other cams are? including the factory cam? Also, can you post (if you know) the lift at which the advertised duration was measured.

*********************

With old flat tappet cams, I vaguely remember a rule of thumb where they wouldn't design cams greater than a 47(???) intensity because it would start to compromise valvetrain reliability beyond that point. Some of you guys out there might remember it better than I. Anyway, does a similar rule of thumb exist for roller cams? For LS1 cams?? I'd like to know this too.

XTrooper

I'm very happy to put aside all previous posts and start with a clean slate.

You bring up some interesting questions which I'm sorry to say that, at this point, I have no answers for.

I might make one comment regarding the lobe intensity numbers you have listed. As I previously commented above, when making comparisons of cams that use different valve lift points of reference (.004" vs. .006"), you get a skewed view of things. The Crane cam, because its advertised duration is measured at .004", will naturally appear to be less aggressive than a similar cam whose advertised duration is measured at .006". I suspect that, like the Cam Motion cams, the Crane lobes fall somewhere between the Comp XE and XE-R in aggressiveness even though they appear to trail them both in your list.

XTrooper

P.S.- I have no vested interest in the Crane cams, but I do think they're a good cam nonetheless and wouldn't hesitate to use one.

Several tuners, Vinci being the foremost, have had some very impressive results with them.

02Reaper

iTrader: (2)

Here's mine
Cammotion
221/221 .586/.586 112
271 @ .006
135 @ .200
221 @ .050