TSP heads and cam package question!!
Teching In
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: Detroit Michigan
*Edit to soften my message.
It concerns me to see suppliers getting into posting battles. As a business owner myself I can understand the pride that goes into creating and marketing products. I also know what it's like to operate in a competitve market and having to fight for market share.
People doing business with companies, putting down their hard earned money want to feel confident that they are dealing with a respectable supplier they can trust.... this kinda of posting underminds that message.
Being that I am an out of state customer, I have to go on the posts of the suppliers and responces of past customers. Trust and confidence are easily shaken in this environment. I'm sure you both have great products that are capible of getting the rubber to the road.
It concerns me to see suppliers getting into posting battles. As a business owner myself I can understand the pride that goes into creating and marketing products. I also know what it's like to operate in a competitve market and having to fight for market share.
People doing business with companies, putting down their hard earned money want to feel confident that they are dealing with a respectable supplier they can trust.... this kinda of posting underminds that message.
Being that I am an out of state customer, I have to go on the posts of the suppliers and responces of past customers. Trust and confidence are easily shaken in this environment. I'm sure you both have great products that are capible of getting the rubber to the road.
Last edited by George8211; May 18, 2005 at 11:11 AM.
Brent I'm not seeing where we attacked your products. That being said like I told you in IM, lets take this to IM & not keeping arguing on the boards. I'm still waiting on you to show me anywhere where we said 1 negitive thing about your products.
Both companies make good cylinder heads & I have better things to do that argue with you.
Both companies make good cylinder heads & I have better things to do that argue with you.
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
George8211
I'm terribly sorry for the post, I'll try to keep the post on topic!
I'm terribly sorry for the post, I'll try to keep the post on topic!
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
On The Tree
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: Albuquerque, NM
i bet my tea 5.3 stage 1.5 heads out flow the prc stage 2.5 5.3L heads....
didnt mean to start anything between some sponsor just stating to brian that the guy wasnt being open minded to the best deal available, so I threw out a suggestion. didnt mean to step on any toes just wanting to properly inform another ls1tech'r
didnt mean to start anything between some sponsor just stating to brian that the guy wasnt being open minded to the best deal available, so I threw out a suggestion. didnt mean to step on any toes just wanting to properly inform another ls1tech'r
On The Tree
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: Albuquerque, NM
Originally Posted by Brian @ Texas Speed & Performance
OR he could go with the PRC heads for $1529(regular price) w/NO core charge using NEW 5.3L GM castings. 
This is for the stage 2.5 cylinder heads, too, with stainless 2.04"/1.575" valves, NOT a stock 1.55" exhaust valve!
Brian
This is for the stage 2.5 cylinder heads, too, with stainless 2.04"/1.575" valves, NOT a stock 1.55" exhaust valve!Brian
Teching In
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: Detroit Michigan
Hummmm.... what's really the best deal. If you could buy tires that can go 300 mph, but your car only goes 150 mph... does that mean its a better set up... or maybe you wasted you money paying more for something you woun't fully use.
In the real world flow numbers don't mean one head is better than the other... "in terms of your own car". If your not cammed and tuned to use ever cubic foot of air that the head can flow... then what differance does it make ?? Add to that a perfect flow capibilities of induction and exhaust system.
The best deal is getting what gives you the best results for your set up. Often people are over buying there racing parts... the most important investment... is one of homework to ensure your parts complement each other.
In the real world flow numbers don't mean one head is better than the other... "in terms of your own car". If your not cammed and tuned to use ever cubic foot of air that the head can flow... then what differance does it make ?? Add to that a perfect flow capibilities of induction and exhaust system.
The best deal is getting what gives you the best results for your set up. Often people are over buying there racing parts... the most important investment... is one of homework to ensure your parts complement each other.
On The Tree
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: Albuquerque, NM
Originally Posted by George8211
Hummmm.... what's really the best deal. If you could buy tires that can go 300 mph, but your car only goes 150 mph... does that mean its a better set up... or maybe you wasted you money paying more for something you woun't fully use.
In the real world flow numbers don't mean one head is better than the other... "in terms of your own car". If your not cammed and tuned to use ever cubic foot of air that the head can flow... then what differance does it make ?? Add to that a perfect flow capibilities of induction and exhaust system.
The best deal is getting what gives you the best results for your set up. Often people are over buying there racing parts... the most important investment... is one of homework to ensure your parts complement each other.
In the real world flow numbers don't mean one head is better than the other... "in terms of your own car". If your not cammed and tuned to use ever cubic foot of air that the head can flow... then what differance does it make ?? Add to that a perfect flow capibilities of induction and exhaust system.
The best deal is getting what gives you the best results for your set up. Often people are over buying there racing parts... the most important investment... is one of homework to ensure your parts complement each other.
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personaly I like whats going on here to some degree ....
I dont like to see tension between sponsors but I do think it has accomplished soemthing. It has brought the price down for the consumer. Wasnt it Patriot that coined the phrase about driving down the price to make the competition offer a better product? Well Patriot sets the stage with a value priced set of heads. Then TSP answers with the PRC heads, then TEA answers with their heads. I think its all good. Maybe by the time I get up enough scratch to get a package the sponsors will have resorted to living off of bologna sandwiches just to get the price as low as they can stand it!
I dont like to see tension between sponsors but I do think it has accomplished soemthing. It has brought the price down for the consumer. Wasnt it Patriot that coined the phrase about driving down the price to make the competition offer a better product? Well Patriot sets the stage with a value priced set of heads. Then TSP answers with the PRC heads, then TEA answers with their heads. I think its all good. Maybe by the time I get up enough scratch to get a package the sponsors will have resorted to living off of bologna sandwiches just to get the price as low as they can stand it!
Originally Posted by ChameleonBird
but the flow numbers do give you a pretty good idea of what to expect from your car at certain levels!
God some sponsors kill me in the way that they argue about products. But any how, i bet all have great product, it all depends on how much the consumer is willing to spend.
peace rob
peace rob
It's hard to make comparisons of two products when you've never even seen, much less tested, the product you're comparing against. Flow numbers from the same bench with the same flow techniques, horsepower and torque numbers, track results, etc. are all points that help people form a basis as to how well a product is performing. Unfounded claims and statements of one product outperforming another based solely on the fact that you're running one of the said products is pretty meaningless. Of course I'll choose the Chevy over the Ford; I drive one.
Customers choose which product to purchase because of several reasons such as overall performance, reliability, ease of transaction, quality of finished product, etc. Fierce competition does help the consumer with price and quality, so it does work in the favor of the end user. Manufacturers should be able to bring their product to market in a professional manner, using the qualities of their product and their product differentiation to make the sale. The "below-the-belt" tactics are pretty ridiculous and do nothing but hurt all businesses involved. We have NEVER bad-mouthed a competitor's product and never will. We feel our products have plenty to offer, so it does not take the belittling of a competitor's product to make ours look good. Unfound claims from anyone, involved or not, are worthless and are simply meant to spread rumors in a desperate attempt to gain marketshare. It may be somewhat effective in the short-term, but this will not keep you in business a year from now. We will sell our products based on what we can offer the consumer.
Trevor
Customers choose which product to purchase because of several reasons such as overall performance, reliability, ease of transaction, quality of finished product, etc. Fierce competition does help the consumer with price and quality, so it does work in the favor of the end user. Manufacturers should be able to bring their product to market in a professional manner, using the qualities of their product and their product differentiation to make the sale. The "below-the-belt" tactics are pretty ridiculous and do nothing but hurt all businesses involved. We have NEVER bad-mouthed a competitor's product and never will. We feel our products have plenty to offer, so it does not take the belittling of a competitor's product to make ours look good. Unfound claims from anyone, involved or not, are worthless and are simply meant to spread rumors in a desperate attempt to gain marketshare. It may be somewhat effective in the short-term, but this will not keep you in business a year from now. We will sell our products based on what we can offer the consumer.
Trevor
__________________
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 666
Likes: 0
From: DFW/Waco, TX
either way you go bigrob your going to get a good product.
TEA and TSP are both top notch places to get stuff for your car. I personally am going to buy some TEA 5.3 stage 1.5 once i get some money. But i think that TSP has phenominal camshafts. I have boughten stuff from TSP, and there service and shipping methods are superb! I havent yet to deal with TEA, but i have heard from many people that there service is one of the best. Either way you go TEA or TSP, you will have good products.
TEA and TSP are both top notch places to get stuff for your car. I personally am going to buy some TEA 5.3 stage 1.5 once i get some money. But i think that TSP has phenominal camshafts. I have boughten stuff from TSP, and there service and shipping methods are superb! I havent yet to deal with TEA, but i have heard from many people that there service is one of the best. Either way you go TEA or TSP, you will have good products.
I tell you TSP would be the last place I'd ever take my car or buy from. I have seen some half assed tunes that they have done on friends cars. One in particular... that had a fowled o2 sensor and my buddy had a new on in the trunk and they would not even take the time to put it in before they tuned it. I just think that there are better places to spend your money. Like TEA or AFR or Lingenfelter.
Anyway everyone in Texas knows most of TSP's crap comes from Scoggin Dickey anyway.
Anyway everyone in Texas knows most of TSP's crap comes from Scoggin Dickey anyway.
the thing i gotta give credit to Brent and Brian is that they get into the technical aspect of there products at least. though i dont always agree with them and think there bench is suspect they have always answered every question i've asked and give infomation freely on there product. wether it be about there springs, port volumes, there valve sizing, information and theory behind there ports, ect. that alone would sway my vote in choosing between those two. too many times all you see is threads of a sales pitch with no substance; i want tech information not pics of new heads or talke about a new "diamond gold platinum" spring.
but personally i'd just get some AFR's and be done with it 
but personally i'd just get some AFR's and be done with it
Originally Posted by c54fun
I tell you TSP would be the last place I'd ever take my car or buy from. I have seen some half assed tunes that they have done on friends cars. One in particular... that had a fowled o2 sensor and my buddy had a new on in the trunk and they would not even take the time to put it in before they tuned it. I just think that there are better places to spend your money. Like TEA or AFR or Lingenfelter.
Anyway everyone in Texas knows most of TSP's crap comes from Scoggin Dickey anyway.
Anyway everyone in Texas knows most of TSP's crap comes from Scoggin Dickey anyway.
That's interesting, cause i just finished a Forged 347 thanks to the guys at TSP, and had Jason do a mail order tune......Jason's tune was so good, one of the best tuners in the southeast in my opinion(Gomer of ls1tech), only got another 8rwhp over what Jason's mail order tune was. Matter of fact, he was dead on for what i'd want, A conservative mail order tune.
Last edited by tim99ws6; May 19, 2005 at 04:52 PM.
Here's the specs on the PRC heads guys.
slightly cnc ported chambers to open up to the correct bore without giving up much compression
62cc is what the chambers finish at if memory serves me correctly.
The 5.3l intake runner is 218cc.
We use a Manley valve specifically build for us.
The reason the valve is 2.04" is because it's the largest valve you can install in a stock seat. We do that not only to keep cost down, but also to reduce the risk of loosing a seat
If you guys need any other specs just ask & I'll reply as fast as possible!
slightly cnc ported chambers to open up to the correct bore without giving up much compression
62cc is what the chambers finish at if memory serves me correctly.
The 5.3l intake runner is 218cc.
We use a Manley valve specifically build for us.
The reason the valve is 2.04" is because it's the largest valve you can install in a stock seat. We do that not only to keep cost down, but also to reduce the risk of loosing a seat
If you guys need any other specs just ask & I'll reply as fast as possible!
__________________
01 NBM Z28- A4 w/3.23s, TSP Black Lid, Hooker Catback, Pacesetter Headers w/ORY, ASP Pulley, Ported Throttle Body, TSP Torq. v3(231/234) Camshaft, TCI 4400, PRC Stg 1 Heads
Texas Speed & Performance
www.texas-speed.com
(806) 866-0734
01 NBM Z28- A4 w/3.23s, TSP Black Lid, Hooker Catback, Pacesetter Headers w/ORY, ASP Pulley, Ported Throttle Body, TSP Torq. v3(231/234) Camshaft, TCI 4400, PRC Stg 1 Heads
Texas Speed & Performance
www.texas-speed.com
(806) 866-0734
Last edited by Brian @ Texas Speed & Performance; May 19, 2005 at 05:36 PM.
That's funny I have no memory of this car. We always spend time working on cars for guys when they have issues & show up for dyno tunes. I can't count how many times we've replaced 02's, maf sensors, or even weird pcm's for customers without charging one penny more than the basic dyno tune. If you would pm me the guys name I'd like to talk to him because I honestly don't remember that.
We spend a ton of time tuning on cars & I take alot of pride in making sure our tunes are correct.
We spend a ton of time tuning on cars & I take alot of pride in making sure our tunes are correct.
Originally Posted by c54fun
I tell you TSP would be the last place I'd ever take my car or buy from. I have seen some half assed tunes that they have done on friends cars. One in particular... that had a fowled o2 sensor and my buddy had a new on in the trunk and they would not even take the time to put it in before they tuned it. I just think that there are better places to spend your money. Like TEA or AFR or Lingenfelter.
Anyway everyone in Texas knows most of TSP's crap comes from Scoggin Dickey anyway.
Anyway everyone in Texas knows most of TSP's crap comes from Scoggin Dickey anyway.
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,043
Likes: 0
From: Texas and Qatar
Originally Posted by c54fun
I tell you TSP would be the last place I'd ever take my car or buy from. I have seen some half assed tunes that they have done on friends cars. One in particular... that had a fowled o2 sensor and my buddy had a new on in the trunk and they would not even take the time to put it in before they tuned it. I just think that there are better places to spend your money. Like TEA or AFR or Lingenfelter.
Anyway everyone in Texas knows most of TSP's crap comes from Scoggin Dickey anyway.
Anyway everyone in Texas knows most of TSP's crap comes from Scoggin Dickey anyway.
If this really happened I would have given your friend a 7/8" wrench and helped him change it... if he would have asked. He was probably scheduled for a dyno-time, not electrical diagnostic work. You can't just show up with a fugged up car and expect a tune alone to fix it if you have bad o2's, MAF's or whatever else that programming won't take care of.
That being said, I've probably changed at least 15 bad O2 sensors on the dyno for free, if I had a used good O2 sensor I would gladly donate it also.The only major parts I'm aware of coming from SDPC are GM gaskets bolts and a few other misc. parts. We are lucky to have them down the street from us as they get us out of binds if someone needs something quick and they have it. You'd be surprised exactly who buys from SDPC of the sponsor list to the right.
I'll get some pics of the heads & springs with detailed specs on everything including the new spring/retainer combo Sorry guys I'm so slow getting back to this post, we're short a few guys this week.
Sorry guys I'm so slow getting back to this post, we're short a few guys this week.
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com